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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED party reel powered by RED RAY

i was there. like everyone else in the room, i didn't think anything about bit rate or source when we were watching the reels on the BIG screen. they looked movie theatre quality. seriously. only AFTER the two reels did Ted inform us of the ridiculously low bit rate they were running at off the red ray. I really have no idea how this is possible, because it seems like it should not be.

MiniDV is 25 MBits/second. This was 10. Whoa. I am left wondering how such a thing is possible, and i saw it with my own eyes.....
 
Chris Parker said:
i was there. like everyone else in the room, i didn't think anything about bit rate or source when we were watching the reels on the BIG screen. they looked movie theatre quality. seriously. only AFTER the two reels did Ted inform us of the ridiculously low bit rate they were running at off the red ray. I really have no idea how this is possible, because it seems like it should not be.

MiniDV is 25 MBits/second. This was 10. Whoa. I am left wondering how such a thing is possible, and i saw it with my own eyes.....
Click to expand...

but is it 10 MBit / second for distribution media or also for recording?

regards,
martin
 
wow. thats crazy....so thats why everyone is up in arms tonight. DAYUM.
 
So was REDray the 3rd big surprise Jim mentioned, after Lenses and REDRocket? Or was there something else? Or is the party still going? I'm not in Vegas...help a brother out! :D
Peace,

-Harry
 
Like everyone else, it's hard for me to grasp the idea of cinema quality at 10 Mbit/sec. Obviously the codec must be incredibly efficient. Beyond that, I'm guessing the original images have very low noise/grain... a super-clean original always helps with compression.
 
I have seen it. All I can say is HOW IN THE HELL can you guys get that image quality from 10megabits/sec?!?!?!!?!?!??!?????????????????!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!?!??!

OH MY GOD guys.....OH MY GOD


I am telling you I could NOT see the compression at all.....
 
jbeale said:
Like everyone else, it's hard for me to grasp the idea of cinema quality at 10 Mbit/sec. Obviously the codec must be incredibly efficient. Beyond that, I'm guessing the original images have very low noise/grain... a super-clean original always helps with compression.
Click to expand...

It is possible, just hard and CPU intensive. We've been mugged by Sony for past 20 years and used to watching ugly artefacts of the outdated MPEG-2 flavours from DVD, Blue Ray, DV, HDV, XDCAM to HDCAM. So, understandably, it is shocking to see something done properly and without the need to pay Sony's hefty royalties.

Just imagine how clean or/and how much you can fit of 2k content played off Red Ray.
 
martinnoweck said:
but is it 10 MBit / second for distribution media or also for recording?

regards,
martin
Click to expand...

Just distribution - REDCODE from the camera comes in at something like 35 MB/s + audio.

Pawel Achtel said:
It is possible, just hard and CPU intensive. We've been mugged by Sony for past 20 years and used to watching ugly artefacts of the outdated MPEG-2 flavours from DVD, Blue Ray, DV, HDV, XDCAM to HDCAM. So, understandably, it is shocking to see something done properly and without the need to pay Sony's hefty royalties.

Just imagine how clean or/and how much you can fit of 2k content played off Red Ray.
Click to expand...

You can (well, should) use H264 on Blu-Ray though, and that's pretty nice - far, far better than MPEG2, but RED RAY looks like it's going to be in a league of its own!
 
Pawel Achtel said:
It is possible, just hard and CPU intensive. We've been mugged by Sony for past 20 years and used to watching ugly artefacts of the outdated MPEG-2 flavours from DVD, Blue Ray, DV, HDV, XDCAM to HDCAM. So, understandably, it is shocking to see something done properly and without the need to pay Sony's hefty royalties.

Just imagine how clean or/and how much you can fit of 2k content played off Red Ray.
Click to expand...

My question was if they are going to consider a distribution format... not 4k, but flawless 1080 in a normal DVD. If you sold a Red Ray to every household the numbers would work out.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
My question was if they are going to consider a distribution format... not 4k, but flawless 1080 in a normal DVD. If you sold a Red Ray to every household the numbers would work out.
Click to expand...

Roberto, I don't expect Jim to think small when it comes to Red Ray. I am sure they did and, I'm sure it will be lot cheaper than the draconian Blue Ray royalties going to Sony's corporate pocket.
 
So many potential questions here...I hope RED lays out some official (yet of course evolving) specifics tomorrow on the website/forums. I think better to nip potential confusion in the bud rather than let it blossom into a frenzied flurry of questioning and misinformation. Oh, and I'm still jealous I wasn't in Vegas for the party ;)
Peace,

-Harry
 
I watched, thought nothing of it and almost pissed my pants when Ted said it was redray!! at 10megabits/sec...I can't see how..not 4k....not what I saw......it looked, well, pretty much the same as the un compressed.
 
Red Ray Compression

Red Ray Compression

We screened two reels tonight - one was Red 300 (debuted last September at IBC) and the new Red 400 (finished at like 3AM Friday morning).

The Red 400 original files were mastered as 16bit TIFFs (4096x2304), roughly 51MBs per frame. That's an uncompressed data rate of 1.3GBs per second.

The Red 300 was mastered as 10bit DPX (4096x2048) at roughly 32MBs per frame or about 750MBs per second.

We screened the uncompressed version of the Red 400 (scaled to 3840x2160) and followed it with the RedRay encoded Red 300.

Here is the mind-bender:
The Red 400 total file size is roughly 320GBs
The Red 300 total file size is roughly 450MBs

The secret obviously lies in the power of wavlets when put in the hands a dedicated and talented team. I edited and supervised the 4K DIs on both those reels and I was astonished at the quality of the high frequency compression response. Even if there was visible compression in the low frequency (none of us were happy with the projection tonight, but then again, we were in a ballroom...) who cares at a 700x StuffIt!!

michael
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Roberto, I don't expect Jim to think small when it comes to Red Ray. I am sure they did and, I'm sure it will be lot cheaper than the draconian Blue Ray royalties going to Sony's corporate pocket.
Click to expand...

Pawel, I really don't know what Sony ever did to you to cause you to hate them this much, but the fact is that MPEG2 is only one codec that is part of the BluRay spec, and not even the most popular. Most commercial BluRay discs use either AVC (aka H.264, aka MPEG4) or VC1 (aka Windows Media 9).
 
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