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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Experiment workflow - How to get rid of color bug -I hope

mikeburton said:
I personally would rather take the little bit of extra time to transcode than work with the proxies. Personal editorial choice. That's why when I saw your workflow here bypassing the L&T it sparked that it would probably also work with the ProRes files, and it does. L&T was a step in the workflow that bothered me so your workflow discovery is awesome! Different strokes.
Are you getting audio to pass through back into FCP with the proxies workflow you have outlined? That's the only part I can't seem to get to transfer using your EDL method.
Also, I tested build 18 anamorphic footage with the ProRes method I outlined and it works as well. You have to de-squeeze one clip in Color and apply those settings to all.
Anyhow, great find!
Click to expand...

I think your option with prores is cool and as you said it depends from editorial choice. More options we know better it is. About reimporting...usually I bring back to final cut the folder with rendered files from color. And I relink the audio dragging the folder on the timeline. I don't trust send to fcp from color but maybe it works.
 
Just recolored the sequence and exporting 2k Prores 422HQ - Luca your discovery is trumping DV workflow. Really amazing. Granted FX rendering and 3K files may slow things down but as far as this goes this workflow is highly scalable. I'm running it on a 20" imac 2.0Ghz 2GB ram off of FW400 (producing beautiful images). Scaling up my hardware to an octo mac with a high speed RAID configuration 8-16 GB ram should give me tremendous relief. The indie film maker holy grail is here. Again - thanks for the find.
 
Luca Immesi said:
I think your option with prores is cool and as you said it depends from editorial choice. More options we know better it is. About reimporting...usually I bring back to final cut the folder with rendered files from color. And I relink the audio dragging the folder on the timeline. I don't trust send to fcp from color but maybe it works.
Click to expand...

The problem I'm finding is that Color doesn't render out the audio. So, even if i was to drag the rendered folder from Color onto the timeline the files would not have audio attached and would have to re-link the audio manually. Compare this to the standard XML workflow where audio is passed through.
Not a big deal to manually relink the video and audio but it would be nice if it does it for you. Not sure at this point where the issue stems.

How about the gamma shift? Is this happening for everyone else too ever time they render out of Color?
 
PROBLEM: I just finished editing my music video with the proxies, but no matter how I send to Color, I get the weird skippy/loopy problem. Tried send to Color, tried EDL, tried XML.

and unfortunately the video has a shit load of dissolves. could that have anything to do with it?
 
Brandon said:
PROBLEM: I just finished editing my music video with the proxies, but no matter how I send to Color, I get the weird skippy/loopy problem. Tried send to Color, tried EDL, tried XML.

and unfortunately the video has a shit load of dissolves. could that have anything to do with it?
Click to expand...
Strange. I've tried a lot of different edl but I didn't have the loopy problem. The only problem that I saw with the edl is color doen't find a file or it replaces one file with another, but if you keep everything in order it works like a charm. Please try to remove every effects, dissolves included, prior to export the edl.
 
In my testing XML generated the skipping issue. EDL required very stringent directory structure (see Luca's comments) but it worked fine.As far as transitions my fade out didn't make it back to FCP from color - but it wasn't a big deal to add it in before final render.
 
mikeburton said:
The problem I'm finding is that Color doesn't render out the audio. So, even if i was to drag the rendered folder from Color onto the timeline the files would not have audio attached and would have to re-link the audio manually. Compare this to the standard XML workflow where audio is passed through.
Not a big deal to manually relink the video and audio but it would be nice if it does it for you. Not sure at this point where the issue stems.

How about the gamma shift? Is this happening for everyone else too ever time they render out of Color?
Click to expand...
You don't need to do it manually, just drag the rendered folders all togher in the timeline and replace the video track. Fcp will place all the files inside the folders automatically in the timeline. I have to check about the gamma shift. What about using after effects for final rendering?
 
Final ProRes render using Compressor:

Now that I have a nimble workflow my final render is creating problems. After sending to fcp from color, relinking sound and adding a fade out transition - I send the 2k (2048x1152) timeline to compressor to transcode to Prores422HQ -

the sound passes through however the image is a bright green!?!?! The entire clip renders green. I've tested the presets for Prores422, Prores422HQ for progressive source, both green. I ran 2 additional renders before leaving (AIC HD and Uncompressed 10Bit 422-will report when I return)

Has anyone had this experience?
 
Luca Immesi said:
You don't need to do it manually, just drag the rendered folders all togher in the timeline and replace the video track. Fcp will place all the files inside the folders automatically in the timeline. I have to check about the gamma shift. What about using after effects for final rendering?
Click to expand...

Good Tip with the dragging the Color Render folder into the FCP Timeline! The gamma shift is an easy fix but is really annoying to have to render again. I haven't tried to apply the gamma shift in the primary out room yet and render to FCP. That might solve it, might not. I'll test and report back.
 
Joyfool said:
Final ProRes render using Compressor:

Now that I have a nimble workflow my final render is creating problems. After sending to fcp from color, relinking sound and adding a fade out transition - I send the 2k (2048x1152) timeline to compressor to transcode to Prores422HQ -

the sound passes through however the image is a bright green!?!?! The entire clip renders green. I've tested the presets for Prores422, Prores422HQ for progressive source, both green. I ran 2 additional renders before leaving (AIC HD and Uncompressed 10Bit 422-will report when I return)

Has anyone had this experience?
Click to expand...
I don't use compressor for this kind of export. As long as your sequence come back to color you can use the export of final cut (file-export-quicktime movie) just enable render all yuv material in high precision yuv in the sequence settings. Don't use for the export "using quicktime conversion".
I would use also uncompressed 10 bit out of color to have the best quality. Then when you send back to final cut you will have an uncompressed sequence. Just export it and you have your uncompressed master.
After take it to compressor or mpegstreamclip to make a prores.
 
mikeburton said:
Good Tip with the dragging the Color Render folder into the FCP Timeline! The gamma shift is an easy fix but is really annoying to have to render again. I haven't tried to apply the gamma shift in the primary out room yet and render to FCP. That might solve it, might not. I'll test and report back.
Click to expand...
Did you try with uncompressed 10 bit?
It seems if you follow what I've said before you don't have gamma shift.
Compare the render from color with the export from final cut (you have to open them with quicktime and uncheck enable final cut studio compatibility in quicktime preferences). Now try to change display settings from gamma 1.8 to 2.2, the gamma doesn't change.
 
Joyfool said:
Just recolored the sequence and exporting 2k Prores 422HQ - Luca your discovery is trumping DV workflow. Really amazing. Granted FX rendering and 3K files may slow things down but as far as this goes this workflow is highly scalable. I'm running it on a 20" imac 2.0Ghz 2GB ram off of FW400 (producing beautiful images). Scaling up my hardware to an octo mac with a high speed RAID configuration 8-16 GB ram should give me tremendous relief. The indie film maker holy grail is here. Again - thanks for the find.
Click to expand...

I wish I could say the same thing... I have a lot of R3D files split in 2GB segments, and it seems to mess up the EDL a little bit...
Or could it be that my file structure, which spreads on 5 FW800 drives, is too messy?
 
PatD said:
I wish I could say the same thing... I have a lot of R3D files split in 2GB segments, and it seems to mess up the EDL a little bit...
Or could it be that my file structure, which spreads on 5 FW800 drives, is too messy?
Click to expand...

I'm willing to bet it's the file structure. I was scratching my head on what could be going on but when I simplified/unified the structure it ran perfectly. The issue I'm contending with now is compressor rendering out green clips...more testing to come.
 
Joyfool said:
I'm willing to bet it's the file structure. I was scratching my head on what could be going on but when I simplified/unified the structure it ran perfectly. The issue I'm contending with now is compressor rendering out green clips...more testing to come.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's the structure. Another thing it's move all the required files in the default source directory of color. Regarding the green issue it's strange because when they come out from color they aren't r3d anymore.Anyway did you try to export the fcp timeline as I said?i'm pretty sure the quality is the same.
 
yes using FCP to do the render seems to work. I got a 20GB 10 bit uncompressed as well as 3GB Prores422HQ rendered and both play without any green frames. Maybe Compressor will get an update soon...
 
Joyfool said:
yes using FCP to do the render seems to work. I got a 20GB 10 bit uncompressed as well as 3GB Prores422HQ rendered and both play without any green frames. Maybe Compressor will get an update soon...
Click to expand...
Don't use fcp to transcode to other formats, it's bad. Use only export to quicktime movie from fcp, in this way you output the timeline as it is.
 
Luca Immesi said:
Don't use fcp to transcode to other formats, it's bad. Use only export to quicktime movie from fcp, in this way you output the timeline as it is.
Click to expand...

Yes that's what I did > export to quicktime.
 
So guys any news regarding DCP and film out tests?
 
I ran into this, so I'll have to do it over Christmas
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=23828

BUT there are a couple of more pitfalls, especially in connection to the LUT over LUT issue. I'll try to get a blogpost with examples up before Christmas, but with three kids... :)
 
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