Real frame rates...

[ETCFILMS]

I remember a book publisher's website where they published a VERY long list of story ideas they don't want to see any more of! (But that endless wannabe writers thought were cool and original ideas).

This is off topic can you post a link to this article? I am really interested.

 

[Josiah Spencer]

Red is a steal.
People be real.

 

[J. Eric Camp]

Oh yeah.

I remember when we bought the HDFW-900's for 72k each. Thats just the back, same as the 17.5k price for the R1. Again, 1080, 4:2:2 nothing over 30p, no open shutter.

The price versus specs on all the RED camera, existing and proposed, is insane and unheard of.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

The price versus specs on all the RED camera, existing and proposed, is insane and unheard of.

True. :watsup:

 

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

The price versus specs on all the RED camera, existing and proposed, is insane and unheard of.

I couldnt agree more. :w00t:
I never thought or even dreamed of buying something like this. Now that I have, I feel confident of my investment. The sole fact that you can discuss things on this forum with everyone from red makes the community something out of the ordinary.
Jim might get frustrated that people start lobbying for their own sake, unfortunately I dont see how thats going to stop over time, this community is gonna get bigger and bigger as sales improve and probably that stuff will happen more often. I dont want to spoil the party, I just want to be prepared on how to read the board and get the best of it.:biggrin:

 

[Daniel Reichenbach]

When I bought a DigiBetaEquipment years ago, that costs me around 200'000 $ with HybridRecorder to put an image on the screen and around 4 years to pay the money back. My two REDs wins already money after some month, with pictures I have 30 years dreamed of. THIS IS A REAL REVOLUTION indead. And by the way: don't think, that the clients don't recognize the better quality of the image... and the easier workflow compared to 35mm film.

 

[REDneck]

When I bought a DigiBetaEquipment years ago, that costs me around 200'000 $ with HybridRecorder to put an image on the screen and around 4 years to pay the money back. My two REDs wins already money after some month, with pictures I have 30 years dreamed of. THIS IS A REAL REVOLUTION indead. And by the way: don't think, that the clients don't recognize the better quality of the image... and the easier workflow compared to 35mm film.

woah woah... you went too far... i agreed with you up until 'the easier workflow' part. the film workflow is easy, it's just expensive.

 

[Mark Pugh]

Some people need perspective. In the UK a Sony HDW-F900R is around £43,000 - yes that's GBP! No high frame rates, only HD res. No upgrade possible, ever. Timelapse optional, slow shutter optional.
If you make any money in video at all I think there's a camera to suit in the RED range. If you're a stills person ONLY that's not quite the same, but if you do stills as well as video then you're laughing.

You're missing something - Red imagery is far far superior to an F900.

 

[Petr Dvorak]

@Jannard

The 'problem' is that you've brought something most people have never even dreamed of almost within reach. That price point tricks the mind into thinking it's competing with a 5D + Handicam.

It is difficult to fathom that you are actually giving them a 5D + a $300,000 cinematic camera.

YES dtto

 

[Petr Dvorak]

The frustrating thing with the board is that someone (who has no idea what it takes) asks a legitimate question like... "can't you just give us xxx in this body?" It seems innocent enough...

Then, someone else (who has no idea what can or can't be done) says, "of course they can, but they are won't because they are protecting their EPIC"... or some other like statement.

Then a group gets together to lobby for that to get done. All the while, it just is not possible. Or if it is, it is at the expense of something else... a trade no one wants to make.

Pretty quickly, there is mob rule. The most frustrating part is that I have already fully explained "why not" somewhere on the board, usually more than once.

Jim

Jim,

then just make your special inner yellow Sticky in this threads (just before first post), where you or anybody from staff can simply once explains your statement about discussed topic. Then nobody get frustrated with searching it and people don't get in some usless unproductive spins.
And that's it. :biggrin:

 

[Todd M.]

woah woah... you went too far... i agreed with you up until 'the easier workflow' part. the film workflow is easy, it's just expensive.

That probably depends on your proximity to labs.

 

[Eki Halkka]

That probably depends on your proximity to labs.

Also, easy is relative - There's quite a few steps from the film camera to the color correction bay. There's bunch of people that do the work
at the lab and scanning, but it's usually kind of invisible to the photographer. It just happens...

The difficulty and gear-cost level of developing and scanning film is far beyond individuals. The RED workflow on the other hand is much easier, so much so that it's usually not necessary to get a professional facility to spit out the DPX:s. It's often done by the camera owner/operator, and though it's very fast and easy compared to developing and scanning film, it's not invisible work ;-)

 

[Michael Neborak]

I am very interested to see when these incredible Epic specs and already existing Red One start to affect other professional camera suppliers like Sony or Panasonic, causing them to drop their prices and actually come out with something revolutionary. I am sure that there will have to be some kind of counter made by Sony when the EPIC releases because if there isn't, they will be blown out of the water with their camera sales decreasing tremendously. I don't think they will be able to keep up with RED.

 

[GIR]

Jim, I'm pretty new to the forums, in fact I don't own a RED yet... but I will. Take heart, you're doing a great job.

For far too long other companies have been trickle feeding technology advancements, knowing they could milk the end user due to a lack of competition in the marketplace.

It's not just that, Japanese companies like Canon, Sony etc are just plain out of touch with what the rest of the world want, that's why you end up with video modes that shoot only 30fps, now that's something to complain about not what Red is offering.

 

[Eryc Tramonn]

I have heard the same joke too many times. There is a not-so-quiet group that keeps bringing this one up. Most of the time I don't see the clown face attached to the request.

I will take your advice and relax on it now. We have tried very hard to listen and accommodate our customer's wishes. But every time we find a way to up the specs, the requests keep coming. We have now passed the point where we can do more. Having come to that realization puts me at ease. I hope the board feels the same way.

Jim

Jim, please be easy sir. It's all good. You've done more than anyone EVER thought possible, but it's only human to want to continually push the envelope. Most everyone here realizes your accomplishments, and is grateful for them. I know I'm in awe. So don't let comments for "improvements" or additional specs rub you the wrong way...just treat them as food for thought. Who knows what technological advances lie on the horizon that may make some of these flights of fancy attainable. Just stockpile them for a later date. We all know you want to incorporate every request, but it's obvious even you are only part alchemist.

Blessings.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I am very interested to see when these incredible Epic specs and already existing Red One start to affect other professional camera suppliers like Sony or Panasonic, causing them to drop their prices and actually come out with something revolutionary. I am sure that there will have to be some kind of counter made by Sony when the EPIC releases because if there isn't, they will be blown out of the water with their camera sales decreasing tremendously. I don't think they will be able to keep up with RED.

Actually, Sony is increasing the prices on their camera's... go figure!

At Red: keep on doing what you're doing. I think most of us are very happy with what's announced.

 

[Michael Moreno]

Jim i have another present for you

its called reality

reality is there are far more people out there like me shooting red and dieing to enjoy your new cameras, there is also a large number of people hoping to buy and scrapeing to save up to be a part of the red future.

the sad part of reduser reality is you have like 4 or five nerds and a few good men
chiming in on features and feature requests and pricing.

Jim you have done an incredible job, please dont be distracted by this small talk and get back to work and have the moderators cut down on the chatter around here from all these newbies, the newbie fanboys(lol) are the ones who have jobs and love red and get home to find all this mumbo jumbo. These whiners are the eric cartman types that are typing away on mom and dads computers and making judgement of other peoples work like they were invited into a conversation that they sat next to and all the while their screaming for mommy to bring them some cheesy poofs. lol

lame

jim!!!!!! get back to work!!!!!!!!!! :ranting2: :weight_lift:

your doing a damn good job :matrix:

 

[Rocco Schult]

..Everyone who owns or has used a RED One camera has gotten unbelievably more than they paid for...

...Is 100+ fps (something that almost no camera can do, let alone at 3, 4, 5, or 6k) such a dealbreaker that people aren't willing to buy a FF35 camera for 10 grand...

Well, indeed we got more than we could hope for, true. But the market which our RED ONE is competing with AND wants to compete with (!), there are a lot which can do more than 100 in 4K+, and that is called a filmcamera.
Think 235, 435, 535 to name just one vendor.
Yes, 2K with 100fps + is wonderful to have and again more than we could....
BUT I have more than 100 on every second shoot and to explain why we have a crop factor compared to 4K.
And myself as a freak I don't like to watch the slightly uprezzed images from 1024 height to 1080, I can see the lower res and anti-aliasing artifacts.
Yeah, we are greedy, but we want more, because we have become spoiled due to what RED has pampered us with so far.

 

[Mark Andersen]

The net result is that you CAN have everything. It is called EPIC. You can have any size sensor you want. You can have high frame rates and highest data rate REDCODE. You can have any I/O you want. And you can upgrade forever. It costs 10% of the nearest competitor's product. And that product is not close to the performance specs of EPIC. We really can't do any better than we have announced. We are offering options not available by anyone at prices that have no competition. We listened to ergonomic requests. We have spent a ton of money on resources to enable major league advancements in the industry. Now we are finally OK with the concept that not everyone can afford RED. No matter what we do.

Jim

Well said, If you give the kids a piece of candy, they'll want the whole candy store. The Epic just blows my mind. whats to complain about. I am glad that not everyone can afford it. If everyone had and Epic it would be called a "toaster". Special comes at a price. I've talked to folks who think the Epic (and Red One) are expensive. They are coming form a whole different point of view. I think the Epic is "the deal of the century". Thanks for everything.