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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Is the RED One ever going to be upgraded to the Monstro chip?

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Scott Brown said:
...The root of my initial disappointment came from the fact that we were led to believe that Scarlet was to be a semi-pro pocket camera that would in NO WAY compete with our Red 1's. This clearly is not now the case as Scarlet really will be better than our existing camera in terms of picture quality and certainly in terms of every day use. As a consequence the decision has had an impact on Red owners investment and business model."

Scott
Click to expand...


Scott,

Great posting! Very thoughtful...!!!

However, I have one basic disagreement with the outcome of your effort to "...overcome my initial feeling of disappointment with Jim's announcements" (believe me, I have tried too!!!):sick: My disappointment is that the exit or upgrade strategy offered (only to apply the R1 trade in value toward an Epic) is not proportionally risky for Red compared to the risk that many people, 1,000 to be exact, took to support this project at their request.

Actually, as the #711 customer, I feel very left outside of the loop, abandoned with a camera that will be bested/outdated by the originally presented less-intimidating Scarlet, without being able to use the trade-in value offered by Red toward the most robust Scarlet presented, which in fact will allow us to really get onboard the real modularity offered to us via the R1 quite some time ago. :help:

Respectfully,

Luis Otero

PS

It kills me and disappoints me that this sentiment is posted by so many R1 initial owners throughout this forum over and over again, and Red has decided to maintain silence, and does not officially address it... Or is that what will be presented and addressed the 3rd by Jim after thoroughly ponder it???:whistling:
 
red is a computer.
computers get old very fast
try to give back your mac pro for a new one.

you have another year for a ROI of your red one.
if you cant make it in that time, its difficult to understand for me why someone buys a red instead of renting it for his projects.

no offend meant to anybody, just some thoughts.


i want to see what happens when in 36 months someone announces a 5k HDR Cam....for 17500 k.

if its sony everybody will say....see sony can learn...yeah...the holy grail.
if its red that announces such a camera...a lot of dudes will ask...

"why did you made my epic obsolete"

this is strange for me
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
1. "red is a computer. computers get old very fast try to give back your mac pro for a new one."

2. "this is strange for me"
Click to expand...

Cüneyt,

Let me address these two comments:

1. When we were invited to participate on this project, we were promised that the outcome will "render obsolescense obsolete", so your point about obsolete computer does not apply since we were told that this will not happen with this product.:excl:

2. You need to be one of the few (compared with today's numbers) that accepted to hop with Jim to this great roller-coster and adventure to be able to understand it, hence not be "strange" for you.:waaa:

Respectfully,
 
Luis Otero said:
1. When we were invited to participate on this project, we were promised that the outcome will "render obsolescense obsolete", so your point about obsolete computer does not apply since we were told that this will not happen with this product.:excl:
Click to expand...


i see, i ordered much later, i never expected this. Cant say how this silent agreement was...wasnt on the RED wagon then.

Luis Otero said:
2. You need to be one of the few (compared with today's numbers) that accepted to hop with Jim to this great roller-coster and adventure to be able to understand it, hence not be "strange" for you.:waaa:

Respectfully,
Click to expand...

strange is the wrong word i guess...(my english)
but yes, i like the roller coaster bleeding edge stuff.
its fun
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
Cant say how this silent agreement was...wasnt on the RED wagon then.
Click to expand...

Cüneyt,

The agreement was and actually is very loud. You do not need to be part of the Red wagon then. Today you can find all over their web-site that Red's motto is: "Render Obsolescence Obsolete".

That is a profound promise and loud commitment!!!:shifty:
 
what do you want luis?
cripple scarlet, change your red for scarlet instead of epic.

anyway you can upgrade the sensor of the red one.
i dont know how much generations this can last, but thinking of the brains, which you cant trade in or change the sensors, a red is pretty far away from beeing obsolete.

in the long run it still can be cheaper then moving from one brain to another...

But this turns now into speculation.

again:

i guess lets wait a little....there is no egg and no chicken yet...and things will change.

and i couldnt find the render obsolence obsolete stuff in the terms and conditions or at the page...can you give me a link
 
Or force Red politic to change and be like Sony or so?


v*
 
To address the three previous postings:

1- Myself and many early othe adopters really think that the $17.5K should be allowed to us for acquiring the Scarlet flagship (FF 35) so we really are not left behind with the R1 since that brain will allow Red to fulfill the promises of more DR, real modularity, etc that R1 will get with very costly upgrades to X, and then to Monstro just for the sensor, but not for the body!(now you can understand the issue, I hope! These upgrades are going to be extremely costly at the end!!!).:greedy:

2- By doing so, Red will continue to distance themselve from the othes (Sony, etc). They will remain as a company where the customer base is heard, and actions are taken upon. Otherwise they will start to look, taste and smell more like the others. :sorcerer:

3- We do not want refund; we gambled on this idea with the modularity concept, and constant increase of DR at not cost (that was directly said by Jim as one of his goals), so we want the Scarlet upgrade path, which now fits better to the conceptual final product we thought Red was describing as the "deliverable one". You gamble since you think that you are going to win, basically because the rules are not going to change in the middle of the game. Well, I think everyone learned from the result of changing rules in the middle of the game during the Florida 2000 elections!!! :weight_lift:

We just want to get a path which will allow us to get closer to what we were explained R1 future will be. That is not much to ask, don't you all think?:umm:
 
Luis Otero said:
To address the three previous posting:

1- myself and many early othe adopters really think that the $17.5K can be used to acquire the Scarlet flagship so we really are not left behind with the R1 since that brain will allow Red to fulfill the promises of more DR, modularity, etc that R1 will get with very costly upgrades to Monstro (now understand the issue, I hope!).
Click to expand...

costly?---did jim announce a price

Luis Otero said:
3- we do not want refund; we gambled on this idea with the modularity concept, so we want the Scarlet upgrade path.
Click to expand...

you have epic...
but it seems that you want a brand new camera for free...
can you please explain me the logic of giving something after 18 months back and get something brand new with 12 months warranty without paying something additional.

what happens if someone wants to change against scarlet without the assecoires....should jim jannard pay back the difference?

there is a difference between believing in an idea and this luis.


i just really want to understand the logic behind what you want
 
Cüneyt Kaya said:
luis be honest,
if red were your company, would you trade in reds against scarlets for free?
Click to expand...

Cüneyt,

Not for free; no body is asking anything for free. However, for the first 1,000 believers I will allow them to use the trade-in credit on what they think will take them closer to what they expected to be the product with a great deal of modularity, increase of DR, and other important areas discussed throughout the last 2 1/2 years that will be part of the final product. And I will do it since the game changed, the business plan changed, so other considerations must be evaluated too.

And I tell you this with all the honesty that is expected from a gentleman.:detective2:

PS

Jim offered the trade in program. He has his reasons ($$$$$$), and because he is a gentleman. But nobody forced him to do it, even though I admire him for this level of commitment toward this revolution.
 
Why not just put your Red on E-Bay and get your investment back maybe even an extra % if you are lucky and buy a scarlet with that cash? That is pretty simple isn`t it.

Plenty of folks out there who want to get in the Epic line that way and so would actually prefer to buy a used R1 rather than go directly to them. Thats a really nice concept and I am sure that was baked in when they were considering options for early adopters.

Just sell the F_ucking thing and buy whatever you want with that cash. I am certain you will get exactly what you paid if not more for it...

I hear what you are saying and from a certain point of view its valid, from another point of view there are obvious paths "In" and obvious paths "Out" each well thought out its just to choose...You are not trapped or up shits creek.



DogDay.



P.S.
I will buy your R1 from you now if you feel that way so you can buy a Scarlet because I know when the time is right after shooting the shit out of it I will be able to turn around and get a pretty penny for it when people are scrabling to get their claws into The Epic...
 
Nick Wolf said:
1- Why not just put your Red on E-Bay and get your investment back maybe even an extra % if you are lucky and buy a scarlet with that cash? That is pretty simple isn`t it.

2- Just sell the F_ucking thing and buy whatever you want with that cash. I am certain you will get exactly what you paid if not more for it...

3- I hear what you are saying and from a certain point of view its valid, from another point of view there are obvious paths "In" and obvious paths "Out" each well thought out its just to choose...You are not trapped or up shits creek.



DogDay.
Click to expand...

Nick,

To address your comments:

1- I would do it when Scarlet is available. However, at that time I will not get out of it enough to buy it! You need to look at this from the business perspective: the Scarlet presented the 13th will make Red One the lower end. If you take Scarlet FF35, and compare it with the Red One, current sensor vs Monstro.... It makes no sense at all... Would you sign a contract with me that when it is available you will buy it from me @ $17.5K?

2- I will not respond to innuendoes; you can use it with your dog, but I cannot accept it as a human being.

3- I see that you are analyzing this, and are in the right path, but are not there yet... Once you are, we can talk about it.

Respectfully,

Luis

I am not battling for nickels and dimes; it is for what I feel is right, which I think one day you will comprehend.
 
Sorry Lu if I came off too harsh its just I feel your pain and I am trying to calm you down...Maybe it didnt work...No hard feelings ok.

When Scarlet comes out you can let go of your R1 and get more for it then than now...Its existance is not what makes the value go up and down its the people who will want Epic...Those who missed "The Opportunity" that you so wisely took. Those people will not want to get at the back of the line...You as an early adopter will be key for them that has a value doesnt it? That is as it is because that path was designed for you to exit or continue as you see fit.


DogDay.

P.S.
My Dog loves innuendoes...How could you know?
 
Nick Wolf said:
Sorry Lu if I came off too harsh its just I feel your pain and I am trying to calm you down...Maybe it didnt work...No hard feelings ok.

When Scarlet comes out you can let go of your R1 and get more for it then than now...Its existance is not what makes the value go up and down its the people who will want Epic...Those who missed "The Opportunity" that you so wisely took. Those people will not want to get at the back of the line...You as an early adopter will be key for them that has a value doesnt it? That is as it is because that path was designed for you to exit or continue as you see fit.


DogDay.

P.S.
My Dog loves innuendoes...How could you know?
Click to expand...

Nick,

I knew you were on the right path of analysis. Red One owners are now the best, and FREE, advertisement that Red has!

I am an accomplished business person; actually I have a Doctorate in Business Administration (DBA). The decision of only use the trade in toward the Epic is simple. You know which one it is, so I do not need to spell it out here.

However, from what we were told for two years of what R1 will be, and the premises of what Scarlet was going to be, and what now is going to be, they do not want to use the trade in money toward it since R1 will be the lower end camera. Only will be equivalent (sensor wise only) if you spend around $10K to go to X, and later to Monstro.

From the tax perspective, it makes a lot of sense to "give" us the full value for the R1: tax exemptions, depreciation, and much more...

I am saying too much, and I have my hopes that the announcement on the 3rd will include my petition...

Peace,

Luis

PS
Be good with your dog; he will always be there for you!:)
 
Yes Lu I would sign a contract with you providing I have the assurance that I would recieve your place (#711) in line for the Epic.

Sign it now, but you may regret it when you watch me turn around and make a nice little profit off that deal because at that stage of the game there will be people willing to pay quite a nice primium for that advantage.


DogDay.
 
Peace Lu...And yes you are right ( She ) will always be there for me...Thats her in my avatar...Her name is Pepsi....Take care man!


DogDay.
 
Luis,

At 1st, we said that all R1 owners could trade in their RED ONE for full credit on a $40K EPIC. That still is true (although not a very good deal today).

Then, when the program changed, it was full credit on a $28K Epic... which is still true today.

If we change the program (as we have promised to do) we will need to figure out some creative way to reward our RED ONE customers for their loyalty and belief in the program. But it will not be something where RED loses money. I am sure you want RED to be financially healthy to continue to develop products for the future.

We will always give an advantage to our original RED ONE customers. And while it won't be in the form of free cameras, it will be in a very thoughtful way.

Jim
 
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