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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

DSLR-killer...

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David Swan said:
I don't think any scarlet s a DSLR killer....yet.
To do this a camera would have to be priced within shouting distance of the 5D / D700 / A900, rather than in excess of the 1Ds / D3.
The elements are all, there, interchangeable mounts, 24Mp FF35, 13+ stops DR, but $12000 body only, without VF or grips? No.
However, strip out the expesive cine bits, get volumes up and a price of say$4000 or less and I think then Canon or Nikon should be worried.
As things stand only Haselblad and Phase one shoud worry, and that's over the 645 Epic
David
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My thoughts exactly...
 
There is some way to go before SCARLET could be touted as a DSLR killer. Echoing David Swan I think that as announced, the acronyms DSLR and DSMC result in an hybrid that, whilst satisfying certain sectors fall short in others. Modularity should allow for a tool focused (sorry!) on still work that, with the changing of elements, makes it ideal for moving image acquisition. I think the principle is spot on and the ambition cannot be faulted but currently the recently announced models will only kill the existing market if they redefine it and that's a lot of inertia to push against.
 
David Swan said:
I don't think any scarlet s a DSLR killer....yet.
To do this a camera would have to be priced within shouting distance of the 5D / D700 / A900, rather than in excess of the 1Ds / D3.
The elements are all, there, interchangeable mounts, 24Mp FF35, 13+ stops DR, but $12000 body only, without VF or grips? No.
However, strip out the expensive cine bits, get volumes up and a price of say$4000 or less and I think then Canon or Nikon should be worried.
As things stand only Haselblad and Phase one shoud worry, and that's over the 645 Epic
David
Click to expand...

I agree... at least for the most part...

I was looking forward to not having to buy a new DSLR. I could perfectly live with 2/3" for stills when the rest is RED power. (the canon 30D produces nice pictures already with a small sized chip. so why should it be different for RED) but 5mp? that makes it a cool feature for a motion camera, but definitely does not make it a DSLR killer for me.

But I differ when it comes to the model. I think it starts becoming interesting with the S35 already. With 13.8MP and all the rest of the RED goodness that brain would be my first choice. (The Canon 5D had 12MP) Ok, the Canon 5D Mark II is 2.500 only but the 1D is about 7.000 already... so I guess there's not much to complain pricewise... The S35 will be a true DSLR killer. And killers have never been cheap either. ;)

The only "problem" is that -understandably- everyone (including consumers and prosumers) wants a part of RED. And if you compare the prices, the lower segment is not filled with a DSLR killer, but with the best Motion Camera you can possibly buy in that segment.

If I could have a 2/3" Scarlet with a nikon/canon mount and 10-12MP... I'd kill any DSLR for it! hehe ...Jim? ;)

sigh!
 
The only DSLR Killer is me... Mwaahaha! Really, just hope the new cams are as rock solid as possible. Maybe someone in the military, or high impact work can test these first :gun: I want some anti shock, water proof, Jim Jannard proof, camera as much as possible.

And YES this will be a DSLR Killer for me! :pirate:
 
Really usable digital camera DC0012

Really usable digital camera DC0012

With its unique design, the DC0012 has won many admirers. Great looking
Digital Camera with a 5.0 Mega Pixel CMOS Sensor, 3 function modes (Digital Camera and PC Camera), and a handy dual power feature letting you power the camera with the included rechargeable Li-ion battery or 3x AAA Batteries for maximum convenience when on the road. The more important is its attractive price.
 
The reason I was looking at the FF35 is because that is where the big-boys are going. Canon, Nikon and Sony, all have new FF cameras, and when Amateur Photographer tested the new Sony A900, they found 11 stops D/R, similar to the s35 Mysterium X.
So I was looking at the confiuration that offered more all round, and that was the FF35 Mysterium Monstro with 24 Mp and 13+ stops D/R.
But being realistic about pricing we're looking at £12000 Brain only, likely £15000 usable without lens. You could buy a 1Ds III (£4500) plus nearly all the L glass you could need for that.
Dave
 
David Swan said:
The reason I was looking at the FF35 is because that is where the big-boys are going. Canon, Nikon and Sony, all have new FF cameras, and when Amateur Photographer tested the new Sony A900, they found 11 stops D/R, similar to the s35 Mysterium X.
So I was looking at the confiuration that offered more all round, and that was the FF35 Mysterium Monstro with 24 Mp and 13+ stops D/R.
But being realistic about pricing we're looking at £12000 Brain only, likely £15000 usable without lens. You could buy a 1Ds III (£4500) plus nearly all the L glass you could need for that.
Dave
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That is a completely true statement. HOWEVER, those cameras do not allow you to shoot footage beyond anything else out there in the same "market" (I put quotes because, really, is there a market SCARLET belongs to? I think it's made its OWN market). People keep asking why so expensive for a FF35 "DSLR" and they do not understand that it will shoot totally kickass video. If you are just a photographer, then stick to Canon/Nikon as they have tons of great cameras. But if your looking for something along the lines of a 5d MarkII, but something FAR better (when it comes to video mode as they both have comparable Still modes), then look no further...Scarlet FF35 is your baby.
:w00t:
 
Without in any way doubting the brilliance of Scarlet, or the concept, we are looking at cine-pricing here.
A 5DII is going to be £2300 for a body that you can stick your lens on, put a CF card in and go out shooting.
Allowing for exchange rate, import duty and distributer's mark up, I seriously doubt a working FF35 Scarlet body (Brain, V/F, Grip and CF moule) will come in under the £15000 I suggested above. That is a totaly different market.
In order to seriously discomode the "big-boys" a DSLR killer needs to be in the region of £2500 or so to get the serious enthusiast as well as the pro and cine market.
Red shook up the cine markets by giving better-for-cheeper, but that is in the cine world with cine budgets and production volumes. Can Red do this in the DSLR world where budgets are that much less and volumes are much higher?
I don't know, but hope so.
Cheers,
David
 
Cine Camera with DSLR capabilities

Cine Camera with DSLR capabilities

Some time before the "brains and bits" were announced, a few people were "uuh"ing and "aaah"ing all over the 5DMkII, saying things like "I'll buy a Scarlet for motion pictures and 5DMkII for still pictures". It does HD at 30p. Wow.

Now we have a surety that any RED FF35 owner will not need to buy a DSLR. This is not the other way round. Which means you'll be able to put your DSLR money into "bits".
 
Ashoka said:
Now we have a surety that any RED FF35 owner will not need to buy a DSLR. This is not the other way round.
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Why isn't it the other way around? I'm pretty happy with the 640x480 video that comes from my wife's compact digital camera. I'd be absolutely thrilled with the 1080p that comes from the 5DII - possibly even more than the video that comes from a Red 35FF because its already finished, compressed and ready to go instead of occupying gig after gig in Redcode I'd probably never get around to dealing with. There are probably lots of still photographers out there like me that would only shoot a few minutes of video (or "motion") a year and really don't care much at all about the quality compared to the quality of our stills.
 
Lee Jay said:
Why isn't it the other way around? I'm pretty happy with the 640x480 video that comes from my wife's compact digital camera. I'd be absolutely thrilled with the 1080p that comes from the 5DII - possibly even more than the video that comes from a Red 35FF because its already finished, compressed and ready to go instead of occupying gig after gig in Redcode I'd probably never get around to dealing with. There are probably lots of still photographers out there like me that would only shoot a few minutes of video (or "motion") a year and really don't care much at all about the quality compared to the quality of our stills.
Click to expand...

What are you waiting for? Sounds perfect for you.

Jim
 
I'm not so sure what makes you think that. It's a render so far after all.
Click to expand...

That's right. Like any new product we will have to wait and compare in real life. Renders don't take stills or video.
 
Jannard said:
What are you waiting for? Sounds perfect for you.

Jim
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It's not compelling enough over my 5D for the $1000 or so it would cost to upgrade. If someone comes out with several good ways to produce better still images than I can with my dSLRs now (a *real* dSLR killer), then I'd be interested, video or no video. I'd prefer video, I'd prefer it to be decent, and I'd prefer 720/60p over 1080/30p. I've offered some of these ways on this forum and on other forums, but no manufacturer has thus far come to market with anything particularly interesting, including Canon, Nikon or RED. I came to this forum because of the hope that RED would be doing some of that based on the "dSLR killer" claim.
 
Lee Jay said:
It's not compelling enough over my 5D for the $1000 or so it would cost to upgrade. If someone comes out with several good ways to produce better still images than I can with my dSLRs now (a *real* dSLR killer), then I'd be interested, video or no video. I'd prefer video, I'd prefer it to be decent, and I'd prefer 720/60p over 1080/30p. I've offered some of these ways on this forum and on other forums, but no manufacturer has thus far come to market with anything particularly interesting, including Canon, Nikon or RED. I came to this forum because of the hope that RED would be doing some of that based on the "dSLR killer" claim.
Click to expand...

Now that you have decided that we haven't (I believe you are in the minority on this one) why stay and complain? Just curious... I have butted heads with you quite a few times on other threads. Happy to have you here, but the productivity seems low. If we offered a 5D-like camera that shot motion like our EPIC at $2K, then you would be happy? RED can't do it and Canon can't do it. So it seems that if you really would be happy with the motion characteristics of a 5D the solution is pretty easy and solved for you already. I just wonder why you stay to complain about something that isn't going to happen. I don't mean to be disrespectful here. I can just see that REDs future is different than the one you have in mind.

My best,

Jim
 
David Swan said:
The reason I was looking at the FF35 is because that is where the big-boys are going. Canon, Nikon and Sony, all have new FF cameras, and when Amateur Photographer tested the new Sony A900, they found 11 stops D/R, similar to the s35 Mysterium X.
So I was looking at the confiuration that offered more all round, and that was the FF35 Mysterium Monstro with 24 Mp and 13+ stops D/R.
But being realistic about pricing we're looking at £12000 Brain only, likely £15000 usable without lens. You could buy a 1Ds III (£4500) plus nearly all the L glass you could need for that.
Dave
Click to expand...

Sorry, not keeping up with you. What Canon, Nikon and Sony movie cameras are FF? - That's FF stills size not FF 35mm movie size.
 
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