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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The big choice: Epic S35 or FF35...

I would prefer the ff35 maybe even 645 but who knows how things will develop in the next few months. Specs change quickly at Red, it is just too soon tell. Especially if they throw in a speed brain into the mix. Exciting stuff !
Aloha
-A
 
I agree with most of the posts here, the S35mm Mysterium does not make sense to me with the FF35 Monstro 3-9 months away. In most cases I'll still be shooting on PL mount lenses and using an image area less than 18x24mm - Super 35, 4 perf. wasting a bit of that 24x36 Monstro...

The S35 Epic also dilutes the cachet of the Epic product line, if you are not overcranking, It's a bit too close to the Red 1 which is in great oversupply on the rental market here in LA. It's confusing enough to explain the difference between our film style set up camera with all the custom goodies and the producers poker buddy's camera that's barely been un-boxed and never been properly set up.

With S35 Epics that are quie close in features to R1's floating around out there Epics won't be that Epic at least until the FF35. Confusing. Bad for business, "Is this the new Epic or the old one ?"

Just speaking personally from my business perspective, as a current Red owner I wish they would entirely kill the S35mm Epic version and release the FF35 at least 6 months before any large sensor S35 or FF35 Scarlets, it would keep the R1 clearly at the top of the camera dogpile until there was truly undeniable upgrade available, which I will gladly pay big bucks for, because I expect to make bigger bucks with it.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
What, exactly, are the specs of the RED One upgrade supposed to look like?

What, exactly, are the specs of the RED One upgrade supposed to look like?

I've been following this with great interest, and here's what I see:

Forget 5K or 6K unless you love to crop. There are not now, nor will there be for many years, any viable delivery systems beyond 4K. Indeed, we don't even have 4K delivery systems now, so the gain in resolution is almost a fools game. 4K is the clear sweet spot. The question now becomes, what other chip characteristics can we get on a 4K chip of S35 size?

There would seem to me to be no real use for the FF35 EXCEPT for the fact that it is supposed to have two more stops of dynamic range. That's a huge plus, of course, but that plus comes at a cost. . . a lot of extra money paid for the inability to really use all of that chip surface with existing cine glass.

I think that what most people really want, and the market would positively go wild about, would be a 4K, 13-stop/16-bit chip in the S35 size. That would be the ultimate sweet spot.

Since we already have the S35-sized RED One, can anyone tell me, with any authority, what the specs of the upgraded RED One are supposed to be? I'd be more than happy to pay a goodly amount of money to just get our two REDs up to 13 stops, and forget any additional resolution.

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I think that what most people really want, and the market would positively go wild about, would be a 4K, 13-stop/16-bit chip in the S35 size. That would be the ultimate sweet spot.
Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't, Stephen. 4K Bayer-pattern cameras are not 4K of real resolution. Many of us believe that 4K will be the next 1080p within about 10 years. If you believe 4K will replace 1080p as the new "gold standard" for display, then you need at least a 5K camera to shoot it, and even better if that camera is 6K - like FF35 Scarlet and Epic.

I am starting to agree with people who are saying Red should concentrate on the FF35 Monstro. That's the camera everyone is really going to want. The increased DR and 16bit are going to be huge advancements.

On the Scarlet side, FF35 is the only viable option for people who need 1080p/2K legit overcranking.

My guess is that once people really think long and hard about this, they will want to go with FF35.
 
Matt Uhry said:
I agree with most of the posts here, the S35mm Mysterium does not make sense to me with the FF35 Monstro 3-9 months away. In most cases I'll still be shooting on PL mount lenses and using an image area less than 18x24mm - Super 35, 4 perf. wasting a bit of that 24x36 Monstro...

The S35 Epic also dilutes the cachet of the Epic product line, if you are not overcranking, It's a bit too close to the Red 1 which is in great oversupply on the rental market here in LA. It's confusing enough to explain the difference between our film style set up camera with all the custom goodies and the producers poker buddy's camera that's barely been un-boxed and never been properly set up.

With S35 Epics that are quie close in features to R1's floating around out there Epics won't be that Epic at least until the FF35. Confusing. Bad for business, "Is this the new Epic or the old one ?"

Just speaking personally from my business perspective, as a current Red owner I wish they would entirely kill the S35mm Epic version and release the FF35 at least 6 months before any large sensor S35 or FF35 Scarlets, it would keep the R1 clearly at the top of the camera dogpile until there was truly undeniable upgrade available, which I will gladly pay big bucks for.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...

Good post, Matt.
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I've been following this with great interest, and here's what I see:

Forget 5K or 6K unless you love to crop. There are not now, nor will there be for many years, any viable delivery systems beyond 4K. Indeed, we don't even have 4K delivery systems now, so the gain in resolution is almost a fools game. 4K is the clear sweet spot. The question now becomes, what other chip characteristics can we get on a 4K chip of S35 size?

There would seem to me to be no real use for the FF35 EXCEPT for the fact that it is supposed to have two more stops of dynamic range. That's a huge plus, of course, but that plus comes at a cost. . . a lot of extra money paid for the inability to really use all of that chip surface with existing cine glass.

I think that what most people really want, and the market would positively go wild about, would be a 4K, 13-stop/16-bit chip in the S35 size. That would be the ultimate sweet spot.

Since we already have the S35-sized RED One, can anyone tell me, with any authority, what the specs of the upgraded RED One are supposed to be? I'd be more than happy to pay a goodly amount of money to just get our two REDs up to 13 stops, and forget any additional resolution.

Stephen
Click to expand...

Hi Stephen,

It's a bit of a stretch to call the current Red1 super 35mm. 4 perf Super 35mm is typically a 18x24mm image used area, plus about 10% look-around. The Red at 4k is 22.2x 12.6mm. It's dimensions sit right between Academy 1.85 and Academy 1.66, which is still totally cool and bad-ass etc., it's just not Super 35.

The Mysterium X was announced as 30mm x 15mm I think. A little bigger than the Mysterium, but it wont help much with 4:3 or 'Scope.

3-perf super is around 24x14mm.

The FF35 would be cool for many things, I've had a few EFX jobs where we would of benefited most from shooting a square format image 24x24mm if that was possible. ( looks like it will be ! )

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
I thought the new Brains will also take newer sensors for future upgrades?:unsure:
 
Tom said:
No, I don't think so.
Click to expand...

I think it was pretty explicitly stated that there will be no option of a Mysterium to Monstro sensor swap out. I think Mysterium to Mysterium X has been stated as being possible on your current Red1 body. Subject to change, looks BAD-ASS, et cetera, ad infinitum.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
 
planetearth said:
As we always hear - everything changes. Perhaps these are all feelers to see how the market reacts. FF35 frame is not an aspect ratio for theatrical release and I don't think you can compare it to 4-perf either - it's more of an IMAX aspect ratio. Perhaps it is also good for anamorphic, but anyone else going theatrical or HD, the S35 is much more practical.

As Jim mentioned, "We expect the volume of EPICs to be much smaller in production... which adds a higher cost to manufacture factor." My personal vote would be dump the FF35, put the resources and time into S35 and dedicate a Monstro and/or Monstro-like latitude to Epic S35.

Keep in mind that the Red industry and Red rental business would function much smoother if there was some sort of standardization. Imagine renting a camera to match your camera or several other cameras and nothing had the same frame size, latitude or frame speed options (this is something Red One does have going for it). Some will be disappointed, some will be left out of the rental market, and production companies that are considering Red for their pictures will be even more confused then they already are. Sure we can spend more time trying to educate, but I'd rather just shoot.
Click to expand...

Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!

However, just imagine the Red system in comparison to all of the many many possible cameras you can buy, SD, HD, HDV, P2, Phantom, F23 etc, etc. Can you really fault them for offering options...

IBloom
 
Matt Uhry said:
I agree with most of the posts here, the S35mm Mysterium does not make sense to me with the FF35 Monstro 3-9 months away. In most cases I'll still be shooting on PL mount lenses and using an image area less than 18x24mm - Super 35, 4 perf. wasting a bit of that 24x36 Monstro...

The S35 Epic also dilutes the cachet of the Epic product line, if you are not overcranking, It's a bit too close to the Red 1 which is in great oversupply on the rental market here in LA. It's confusing enough to explain the difference between our film style set up camera with all the custom goodies and the producers poker buddy's camera that's barely been un-boxed and never been properly set up.

With S35 Epics that are quie close in features to R1's floating around out there Epics won't be that Epic at least until the FF35. Confusing. Bad for business, "Is this the new Epic or the old one ?"

Just speaking personally from my business perspective, as a current Red owner I wish they would entirely kill the S35mm Epic version and release the FF35 at least 6 months before any large sensor S35 or FF35 Scarlets, it would keep the R1 clearly at the top of the camera dogpile until there was truly undeniable upgrade available, which I will gladly pay big bucks for, because I expect to make bigger bucks with it.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...


Agreed 100%

Emmanuel
 
Matt Uhry said:
I agree with most of the posts here, the S35mm Mysterium does not make sense to me with the FF35 Monstro 3-9 months away. In most cases I'll still be shooting on PL mount lenses and using an image area less than 18x24mm - Super 35, 4 perf. wasting a bit of that 24x36 Monstro...

The S35 Epic also dilutes the cachet of the Epic product line, if you are not overcranking, It's a bit too close to the Red 1 which is in great oversupply on the rental market here in LA. It's confusing enough to explain the difference between our film style set up camera with all the custom goodies and the producers poker buddy's camera that's barely been un-boxed and never been properly set up.

With S35 Epics that are quie close in features to R1's floating around out there Epics won't be that Epic at least until the FF35. Confusing. Bad for business, "Is this the new Epic or the old one ?"

Just speaking personally from my business perspective, as a current Red owner I wish they would entirely kill the S35mm Epic version and release the FF35 at least 6 months before any large sensor S35 or FF35 Scarlets, it would keep the R1 clearly at the top of the camera dogpile until there was truly undeniable upgrade available, which I will gladly pay big bucks for, because I expect to make bigger bucks with it.

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com
Click to expand...

Could not agree more.
 
No need to worry Deanan. Redusers can swap places with Red employees and do it in a week! Bags Jim's job....
You guys can jump on the keyboards, crack the whip, spit venon & abuse...and tell us to drive the price down to $1.75c...and have it ready by next monday! The won't work straight off, but hey, neither did....screeeehhh.....hand brake!!

OK....the button....
Move back the idea the taking over the world with FF35 glass.
Concentrate on what you guys do well...come out with great innovative ideas that rock the market and sell like no other pro camera in history. Don't dilute this!!
Remove any deadwood gets in the way...Epic S35 as it sits now.

Can't say too much more because we haven't done the whole swappsie thing.
Dave,
 
Looks like we have a concensus that Epic FF35 is the way to go.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Looks like we have a concensus that Epic FF35 is the way to go.
Click to expand...

100%. I want the FF35 badly.

However ... I predict that Offhollywood will be shooting movies on the Epic S35 while hundreds kick and scream that the FF35 is ... more than three months after the FF35 ...

Just sayin ...
 
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