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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

future cameras vs red one

Get Real

Get Real

Upgrades to sensors on Red One cameras are not going to keep the Red folks in jobs not unless they cost a considerable part of the original asking price. To stay in business they need to sell new products like any other manufacturer and that means "innovate or die" cause the competition catches up. Most video cameras have at best a 6 year life cycle before they are superceded however over the last few years the pace has been quickening so even that time frame has come down (F900 4 years then the F900R). Sony, Panasonic all have 4K cameras waiting in the wings and others are quietly developing cameras to compete with Epic the second stage will not be a one horse race.
 
Don said it best. He's still making $800/day with his DVX100. I'm sure that camera is long, long paid off. So he's making his money on his talent. Use Red in whatever way you can make money, whether it's as a shooter, a rental vendor, a DIT, etc. Squeeze every last penny out of it until the demand is no longer there. Then either upgrade, find another camera, whatever you have to do to keep making money. It's simple economics...well...other than the fact that the economy is going to shit, but that's a whole other discussion. :-)
 
Jannard said:
I have to laugh at this discussion... no offense to anyone.
Click to expand...

I'm with you on that. No offense at all to Zak, who has admitted he was just venting, but in general, it's ludicrous to be whining about how a new camera is going to ruin your "investment." For gods sake, it's a camera. And to be very blunt, this is the exact mentality that Red was founded to eliminate.

It's legacy companies like Sony and Canon who hold back technology because it might "compete" with their other offerings. For all we know, the 5Dm2 is being offered without 24p for this very reason - so it doesn't eviscerate Canon's other 24p-related cameras, products and lenses.

And nevermind the fact that Jim is going WAAAAY out of his way to offer a full credit toward Epic and is even talking about a sensor upgrade for Red One next year! It baffles the mind that anyone would seriously be whining here.
 
I'm just about to pick up my cam, but this thread is basically trying to tell me that I'm making a mistake, that my RED 1 won't be the professional piece of kit that'll make the actors take the project seriously, and that I'm going to get sub-par results because I shoulda waited for something better. And by my next flick, well, my money's down the drain....

Sorry, not attacking anyone, but if the RED 1 is as good as they say, then there are no worries. I've seen footage. I've seen the DOF. I've seen the manipulation of images in post by the experts on-line. (What look do you want?)...

I've (almost) paid the price. I'm not nervous. I'm pumped! If you think you're making a mistake, go buy an HVX500. You'll still need a tripod, lens, storage....

Ah! But now RED offers you a portal into the future; a glimse into their crystal ball! Follow, adapt, dismiss or attack? Act as you will.
 
Zakaree, I just re-read your original post. Don't sweat it, man. It's like you're talking about the new Mac Pro, a year from now, and regretting your purchase from a few or several months ago.

Use it, see the results and be amazed. If you're a complete indy, like me, who probably doesn't even want to rent out his cam to some dreaver, I understand, too. You're not making cash, you're sitting on your investment without return.

Try renting your cam through a local film-house, if you're really concerned. Do everything you can to make coin from it, and with the proceeds (;>), upgrade NEXT YEAR.

Peace.
 
Octavision to New Panasonic 4K

Octavision to New Panasonic 4K

Olympus has Octavision for a while and Panasonic is the new owner and Olympus has the best medical research lab and their optics.
Panasonic was abundant JVC, but Pana's all new LCD monitor is Olympus' OEM now. They are ready for 4K camera, but price is very high. So there is one big problem, and Canon and Nikon has little more advantage. Sony had been invested so heavily F23 to F35, can't go back cheep plastic and need to recoup their initial investment.


Nova Invicta said:
Upgrades to sensors on Red One cameras are not going to keep the Red folks in jobs not unless they cost a considerable part of the original asking price. To stay in business they need to sell new products like any other manufacturer and that means "innovate or die" cause the competition catches up. Most video cameras have at best a 6 year life cycle before they are superceded however over the last few years the pace has been quickening so even that time frame has come down (F900 4 years then the F900R). Sony, Panasonic all have 4K cameras waiting in the wings and others are quietly developing cameras to compete with Epic the second stage will not be a one horse race.
Click to expand...
 
@Jeff
my judgement on this is clear....the Scarlet wont beat the RED !
And the RED wont beat EPIC !
But I cant explain this to a client that want´s a .wmv file for footage that you shot on a 35mm camera ! And dude I have seen stuff that scares you !

Do you think this kind of client cares about details ?
Offer him a 3K camera for 150 $, and a 4K for 1000 $ (per day) !
what is he going to choose ? The romantic 4K camera ?
Or the 3K which you can grade in color whithout a conscience !

I think the GAP betwenn the RED and EPIC is great ! 17,500 !
But the GAP between Scarlet and RED scares me ! -14,500

Im not making any propaganda for or against RED and the Team,
this is not my buisness.......I respekt RED very much as a company !
 
This thread is sort of "funny" after all. The very same people who have been pushing a manufacturer for months to develop a better product since coming to market, now recoil in horror at the very prospect of it.

For RED, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Got to be frustrating for them to read posts like these. Not fair, IMHO. But, hey, it's a free country and people write what they may.

Mind me, but I just think Red One owners should be counting their blessings instead.
 
Sidney said:
Epic is for the big boys (the 35mm crowd) who can actually afford it and have jobs that warrant the best of the best. (and receives payments that goes with that).
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hey danish.. me is wondering how can you get to see your most famous countryfellow?.. a greedy big fellow who doesn't know the difference between a 1/3 sensor and a 35 mm one?.. or just a novice plenty of enthusiasm for a new toy?..

idiots.jpg
 
The artificial stopping of progress is foly. This has always been about the best quality possible at the best price. Meddling with the market for the sake of protecting investments makes me feel sick in the stomach... I hope the overall attitude doesn't go down this path.. Lest we end up with another Sony.
 
in order to match a $3,000 camera.. i would have to upgrade to a 40,000 camera.
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i think that your line of thinking is very selfish. if you already have your 17,500 cam and the other cam has same specs as your home investment so let it be. it seems you will feel better it cheaper cam has a lesser quality...

sad way of thinking man
 
at last someone w/ guts for writing what must always be written.. and not forgotten.. call the bulls for their own names..

my compliments.

edit
although zakaree is not exactly the target whom we should think as first point to shoot at.. he's another victim actually.. another one among many others in the middle of this reeeeeeeevolution..
 
The best cameras are the ones that are here and now. I only worry about today because that's all I can control. You guys are too funny. As a Red owner, the only concern you might have I suppose is that cameras like the HPX3000 have caused some Red jobs to go away. Not necessarily because it's a better camera but it has the perception of being easier to use and fits into some people's workflows better. There are all kinds of camera being developed right now all around the world from a variety of manufacturers, some we recognize, others we might not. I'm worrying less about whether my Red One will be obsolete and more about how to add more hours to the day so I can shoot some of my own projects with it. :-)
 
Worry, worry, worry... when is that last time RED let our customers down (on purpose)? RED ONE owners are very close to our heart. They are the believers. Why would we kill their investment? The good faith that we have already shown is a full credit towards an Epic. And a sensor replacement program. How many other companies have ever offered such a thing? Does that indicate that we are leaving our 1st born behind?

Technology moves forward. The RED ONE was our 1st effort. You would be disappointed if we didn't improve everything. We need to to stay in business. The fact that we acknowledge our RED ONE owners as special speaks volumes about what we think and how we care.

Don't be afraid of your shadow. The RED ONE is making feature movies. Even if you didn't upgrade to Epic, the RED ONE has value. It makes incredible images. It won't stop recording just because we release a new product.

Relax a bit. We own RED ONEs too.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
RED ONE owners are very close to our heart.
Jim
Click to expand...
This has been very true. First there was the $2500 credit towards accessories. Then, the 10% interest on your deposit if you decided to back out. The $17,500 credit towards Epic if you choose to do so. Free audio board upgrade.

Sure, the early adopters had to go through some trials and tribulations, but I think Red has demonstrated they do care about their customers. And it only makes sense that they come out with new products, because if they become stagnant and go away as a company, that is far worse than Red One being one-upped by a new model. We should welcome innovation. That's what we have been asking from them from the beginning. And if you have a Red One now, you are making money while waiting for these new cameras.
 
Your value in the marketplace should ultimately be determined by the quality of the work you do, not by what tools you do it with.

The RED ONE allows you to do quality work NOW so don't worry so much about new cameras coming along that are technically better.
 
Jannard said:
Worry, worry, worry... when is that last time RED let our customers down (on purpose)? RED ONE owners are very close to our heart. They are the believers. Why would we kill their investment? The good faith that we have already shown is a full credit towards an Epic. And a sensor replacement program. How many other companies have ever offered such a thing? Does that indicate that we are leaving our 1st born behind?

Technology moves forward. The RED ONE was our 1st effort. You would be disappointed if we didn't improve everything. We need to to stay in business. The fact that we acknowledge our RED ONE owners as special speaks volumes about what we think and how we care.

Don't be afraid of your shadow. The RED ONE is making feature movies. Even if you didn't upgrade to Epic, the RED ONE has value. It makes incredible images. It won't stop recording just because we release a new product.

Relax a bit. We own RED ONEs too.

Jim
Click to expand...

You're the best, Jim.
 
I`m expecting that the scarlet (or the yet-to-be-announced replacement) will have interchangable lenses and be something like a very small 16mm or (fingers crossed) even 35mm camera (like the eyemo). That`s definately going to be competition for Red One. I even assume that Red One will be EOL with Epic`s and Scarlet`s debut...

I personally would prefer a small camera over the Red One anytime, not only for the reason of less stuff you`ve to carry around, but also for unobtrusive working (I still remember scenes while I was walking / standing at the roadside or the footpath here in the city with an Arri 16SR3 or even 435 Extreme and the hilarious reactions people tend to show)
 
Jannard said:
Why would we kill their investment? The good faith that we have already shown is a full credit towards an Epic.
Click to expand...

But you sayed that you only cant trade your RED to a EPIC only if you ordered bevore the NAB 08 show !
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Your value in the marketplace should ultimately be determined by the quality of the work you do, not by what tools you do it with.

The RED ONE allows you to do quality work NOW so don't worry so much about new cameras coming along that are technically better.
Click to expand...

And that sums most things up...
 
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