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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

future cameras vs red one

Zakaree Sandberg

Zakaree Sandberg

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I am sure like many, certain concerns are on the mind..
not as a film maker but as a guy who basically spent his down payment for a home on a camera and full package.. i am worried about the new cameras coming out.
its great that there are options.. but im freaked out because a 3k camera for 3k basically kills my 17.500 investment. i see there will be new specs added to scarlet.. new sensor.. lens mount? no idea what it will be...

i guess im freaked out.. scarlet will be a great choice for low budget guys.. and epic will be the "pro" choice..

where does that leave red one?
i feel like im in a forced to upgrade position.

in order to match a $3,000 camera.. i would have to upgrade to a 40,000 camera.

maybe im selfish..
but im more worried about my investment.
i dont exactly have the 20,000 more just to upgrade to the next body/sensor..
not to mention if the thousands in accessories I bought will even work with the next camera..

bummed out..
 
a fixed lens over t2 and adaptor is not that attractive for pro shoots as main camera....you lose too much light.

i guess lowerbudget projects will use a red as a-cam and scarlet as b-cam
higher budget projects will use epic as working horse.


i have peronally some other wishes for epic.

100 fps at 4k
500 asa sensor (tungsten would be great )
and there have to be better onboard storage solutions.
the cf cards are ok.
the drives are hot...but have downsides.
the red ram is too expensive.

i wish they would use this:


http://www.ikonoskop.com/dii/80gb-ikonskop-memory-cartridge/

it is cheaper then the ram and a better handling is possible
 
It's gonna have to be better than 500 ISO. At least if it intends to compete with the D90 and 5DmII in low light. Now those two cameras are not ready for prime time but they are a sign of what's to come. I see two products on the horizon, the DSMC/Scarlet for stills/documentary or no budget stuff. And Red One/Epic for all levels of cinema/TV/commercial production. Any real shoot will still require crew, 1st ACs for focus and real controls over frame rate and shutter angle. Agencies don't like paying buku bucks to see their project shot on a little handheld camera.
 
Evin Grant said:
Any real shoot will still require crew, 1st ACs for focus and real controls over frame rate and shutter angle. Agencies don't like paying buku bucks to see their project shot on a little handheld camera.
Click to expand...

exactly...

-and if its a tungsten sensor personnaly i guess 500 ASA is pretty cool.

i forgot something what i wish for epic:

One more stop of dynamic range.
standby modus....its a computer and every computer i know has this feature.
to hot swap batteries.
the RED is sucking energy like crazy when using EVF/LCD/DOWNCONVERTER/W-FF
 
I have to laugh at this discussion... no offense to anyone. Look at the features enabled in the last year on the RED ONE. How many of those are available in a DSLR (forget the skew issue, compression scheme and anything else that comes to mind)? How about ramping? Frame rates? The list goes forever. Please tell us that none of this matters and we can go on vacation...

Jim
 
which part is funny?

that scarlet will be no competition for red one?
the wish list?

all the features on the red are pretty cool.
i know that and like them.

But maybe my english is too bad and i dont get it.
 
K.Berlin said:
which part is funny?

that scarlet will be no competition for red one?
the wish list?

all the features on the red are pretty cool.
i know that and like them.

But maybe my english is too bad and i dont get it.
Click to expand...

The funny part is the mention of the current DSLR entries... not anything you said. Sorry. I should have been more clear.

Jim
 
what i see with red is that when i have discussions about red with production companys there is NO SINGLE word about quality anymore.

this is great.

the discussion shifts to minor things like i mentioned before...
i guess in the red evolution speed these things will be be part of the past in 12 months.

pretty exciting times in good ol germany.
 
It's funny but it's the future. Sensor technology is on the verge of a plateau.
(no offense Jim) but possibly within 18 months you will see many DSLRs capable of video. Sure it will be laughable at first but a generation of competition and Moore's law and there will be little difference between Red, Canon, Nikon or Sony. Then we will be back to film, in a way. What I'm counting on is the D-Cinema roots that Red has. A DSLR is not a purpose designed tool for cinema. We need Red to create the PL/any mount Cinema camera capable of working like a real cinema camera as well as the DSMC for handheld and doco. I do hope the DSMC takes my Nikkors though.
 
In response to the original post don't "freak out" your investment is secure Red1 has come along way and taken the industry with it. A good system is a good system regardless of developing ones around it.

A real life example can be seen with the HVX a great little camera pioneered solid state recording and now over 3 years down the line Panasonic are bringing out the HPX3700 and HMC150. Pros and cons aside the HVX is still a great camera to be used in many applications but for different markets than these 2 new comers.

Red1 is a great camera and when Scarlet and Epic hit the streets I think it will take a few months but each one as in Red...1, Epic and scarlet will find their own markets for production.

All could yield a theatrical release quality image but would be better suited for specific applications and production requirements.
My guess:
Epic - features, high budget commercials, high budget docos
Red1 - Low budget features, commercials, music video clips, corporates, CSA
Scarlet - Low budget commercials, docos, low budget music video clips, corporates, CSA, weddings... barmitzva's,
 
I think it might be a good idea for some people to take a deep breath and step back for a minute to see the bigger picture. Take a second look at Jim. Think of his dedication to us his customers, and his tireless work and the huge expense he has voluntarily assumed to see that we are well cared for and more than satisfied. Think too of the commitment he made to make the Red One not become absolete. So far, he has exceeded all the promises he made. I think we can all relax knowing that he really does have our best interests at heart.

Dave
 
The RED ONE will stand between Scarlet and EPIC !
So that could mean that you loose low budget customers to Scarlet
and high budgets to EPIC !

Some act like it is impossible to mount a 35mm adapter in fornt of the Scarlet !
the only ones who made good money to upgrade to EPIC or buy 10 Scarlets
are the first 1000 RED owners ! who comes first, eats first !

......I understand the RED company ! they have to make profit !
 
Dude!

I'm worried too.
I was about to buy another 5 RED ONES on top of the 3 we will have delivered in 3 weeks time.
DSLR's are a scary thing indeed, The results I've seen are already good enough for SD broadcast even HD. Stupid thing is, they haven't even touched the surface yet.

Scarlet is going to kick us all up the arse, RED is going to make this a good thing no matter how much they play it down and there own DSLR's that shoot video will be amazing as well.
With the world spiraling into economic kaos, Scarlet and these DSLR's will be a great low budget tool, to suit the new low budget world of TV content. FACT!.
RED ONE is already 16x bigger than SD, 4 x bigger than HD, Fact is it's an over kill in it's current state.

EPIC.... well... thats another conversation all together.

Time to think about gear investment I think is now. RED ONEs will be competitive in the market for a couple of years at least, This will give you enough time to pay them off at least.

By the way this is not RED'S Fault. It's just life in the big city.
I do believe RED knows were there bread is buttered, I doubt they are going to bite the hand that feeds them.....

But I have seen it done before.
 
i am smelling a scent of fear...its the same scent that was around before
RED ONE....a lot of guys joined the red revolution and are happy...

i am really excited about scarlet and epic.

with scarlet you have much more possibilities in certain situations.
and i am happy that i can have it for 3k.

i was happy that red was 17,5k i could suddenly afford something really cool.

there are thousands who cant even afford a RED.
Its only fair to give them cool tools they can afford.

what i really like about RED is....you are going to be paid for your skills with tools...not the tools itself
 
guys relax about the RED1,

scarlett is no competion at all - if you can afford a red1 and have jobs that demands a 4k camera with pro lenses, you would never show up with a pocketsized fixed lens 3kcamera. unless ofcourse the size could be utilized for some creative reason (which is why I am also getting a scarlett).

Now Epic, ahh sweet Epic. Epic is for the big boys (the 35mm crowd) who can actually afford it and have jobs that warrant the best of the best. (and receives payments that goes with that).

You can get 2 RED 1´s for 1 Epic - that is a huge advantage for RED 1. For most of the RED 1 customers 4k (plus maybe sensor upgrade) will be more than enough for many years come (think HDCAM is like 8years old or more).

So producers wanting to buy cameras will basically go hmm should we go with 2 red 1´s or 1 epic. (imagine a choice we have now because if RED, 2 high high quality cameras or just one super high quality cam) - before we had no choice, in my opinion, except film.

Here in Denmark a RED 1 camera (excluding lenses etc...) is around 1000 USD a day. Since EPIC is twice as expensive you would assume you would double the rate (2000usd EPIC camera house basic kit). And if you go with two cameras that would be 2000USD MORE a day for a 2 camera EPIC shoot than sticking with RED 1´s. - try explaining that to a client to get 5k instead of 4k... when 4k looks fantastic.

So for all the "middle class guys" who use a downpayment on a house, relax the RED1 is a fantastic camera - the best bang for the film buck ever! show your client/producer the trailer of "knowing", "che" or the other red features coming, and tell them stick with the red 1 and save 1000usd a day.

Just be glad that for the first time in history, someone made a high end camera just for you guys, and let hollywood worry about the Epic. in the end it is what you create with the tool that is important not the "size" of the tool...

EDIT: dammit Berlin "stole" my morale at the end....
 
Just out of interest do these new hi-def recording DSLRs record sound too?!! If not there's a limited application for them.
 
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