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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

11th hour and I gotta know...

J

JonBaade

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I'm about to go into production for a series of spots. My goal is to use the Red One (instead of shooting traditional 35mm film). Here is my problem...and I hope that someone can help me find the solution.

We have an Avid Media Composer (running on PC) with an Adrenaline box with the DNXcel board in it. We want to shoot on the RED, bring it into the AVID and do the full HD online there (like we do with all of our other HD projects).

Has anyone figured out an online HD Avid workflow?

I've tried converting the Red files using RedRushes and either get low res quality or I get files that are not compatible with PC (the ApplePro res is great, but we're not using FCP OR editing on the Mac). When I try to convert to DNxHD from RedCine I get noise. The other options prove to be too low quality (or WAY to large to deal with).

Am I missing something really obvious? Has anyone found a PC Avid Media Composer solution? Anyone? I really want to use the Red for this project but if there is no way we can reasonably online it, I can't.

Thanks for all your help.

Jon
 
Avid

Avid

One year Bruce, we started shipping cameras in Sept 2007. I know, time flies :matrix:
 
You mean you didn't start on the Mac / FCP workflow before that?

EDIT: I'd think that RED prioritized Mac / FCP the moment you hired folks like Graeme (who wrote plugins that worked exclusivly on Final Cut Pro and Color) and Ted, who, being high up at AJA, hobviously had a strong Apple relationship.

The moment RED hired those guys, they knew Apple would "take their call"... to characterize it as "we reached out equally to everyone, only Apple responded" is to only tell half the story.

Again, I have no problem with that and think that Graeme and Ted are great guys. But to outside observers the plan was to prioritize Apple from day 1, as evidenced by the hiring decisions.

Also, there is obviously the a great overlap between FCP users and potential Red customers, so it makes great business sense too.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
The real story: Apple and Assimilate were interested in spending a tremendous about of time to an unproven camera with guaranteed changes every few weeks. Not a single other company stepped up to the plate until much much later and many continued to say we were a joke even after we showed working cameras.

Our relationship with Avid developed much later as a result of new management at Avid and Michael Phillips' help (thanks Michael!).
 
how much footage are you shooting?

i justed bypased all offline and put everything into the AVID at HD res.
hard drive space is getting cheaper these days so if you can expand you system the maybe that is an option for you.

BTW i am also running on WINDOWS with my AVID.
 
Deanan said:
The real story: Apple and Assimilate were interested in spending a tremendous about of time to an unproven camera with guaranteed changes every few weeks. Not a single other company stepped up to the plate until much much later and many continued to say we were a joke even after we showed working cameras.

Our relationship with Avid developed much later as a result of new management at Avid and Michael Phillips' help (thanks Michael!).
Click to expand...

With all respect Deanan... I have not seen much from your relationship with Apple.. They may have taken your call, and they posted some nice material on their site 2 years ago... But aside from that, it looks like you were involved in more of a "one night stand".

Still, the acceptance from Apple at that time was sorely needed and worth its weight in gold.

Jay

Perhaps there's more going on than I see
 
JonBaade said:
Has anyone figured out an online HD Avid workflow?
Click to expand...

I'm in RED/AVID pain at the moment.

Your timescale is important!! If the job is today:

1. consider another camera

2. use FCP

3. Buy or hire scratch

4. learn to love eye matching and a process that makes 35mm look quick

If you want to keep things simple, and can aford the drive space, and not do a PULL for the final online you should just render everything to DPX and use metafuze to creat MXF files and a ALE for your MC.

One of the big problems with Avid is that you can't get 10bit files into it.. This means you HAVE to get close to the look you want BEFORE going into Avid. Avid will not retain 10bit data from a 10bit quicktime nor will it create a 10bit MXF file with metafuze.

The above problem partly defeats the point of shooting with Red. A well exposed red file can allow for great grading options.

I was really hoping by now that we could:

render DNX 36 from Redcine (with apropriate first light correction)
MC editorial
Avid-redcine xml
Pull all the shots you want from within the Redcine project that produced the ofline files (therfore retaining the first light look)
Tweak the setting to push things a little closer to what is needed
Render 10bit files (DNX uncompressed)
Finish in Symphony


good luck

Michael

PS I'm hoping MichaelP is capable of a quick miracle.
 
wayno said:
how much footage are you shooting?

i justed bypased all offline and put everything into the AVID at HD res.
hard drive space is getting cheaper these days so if you can expand you system the maybe that is an option for you.

BTW i am also running on WINDOWS with my AVID.
Click to expand...

Ok...I'm good with that. I can't get the r3d files into the Avid directly (obviously) and I can't get it (RedCine or RedRushes) to render out DNxHD files...what do you use as an intermediary? Or am I missing something painfully obvious. Did you go through DPX sequences?

Jon
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
With all respect Deanan... I have not seen much from your relationship with Apple.. They may have taken your call, and they posted some nice material on their site 2 years ago... But aside from that, it looks like you were involved in more of a "one night stand".

Still, the acceptance from Apple at that time was sorely needed and worth its weight in gold.

Jay

Perhaps there's more going on than I see
Click to expand...


Jay,
I amnot speaking for Deanan, but I am thinking his point was that at that time being first not only mattered but it counted for a lot. I think that seeing the log and transfer integration and the speed with which QT issues are being resolved Apple's help has probably been bigger than we have been able to see.

By the time we see r3d support in COLOR FCStudio will be a pretty powerful RED Bundle.

Peace.

David
 
Michael Lindsay said:
I'm in RED/AVID pain at the moment.



One of the big problems with Avid is that you can't get 10bit files into it..

.
Click to expand...

Are u saying if I import 16 bit tiffs to avid, to DNX 36, 1080p

Its not creating mxfs at 10 bit? are you sure about that, it creates 8 bit?

Thanks
stricko
 
JonBaade said:
Ok...I'm good with that. I can't get the r3d files into the Avid directly (obviously) and I can't get it (RedCine or RedRushes) to render out DNxHD files...what do you use as an intermediary? Or am I missing something painfully obvious. Did you go through DPX sequences?

Jon
Click to expand...


Jon,

i do not know what you already tested, but if you want - check mpeg streamclip site: http://www.squared5.com/ this is one of my favorite free programs (not just mine, of course) both for windows and macs.

it's really powerfull and at the same time very easy for use.

you can importQT proxy into mpeg stramclip and then export it to any avid codec you wish. you may need avid codecs LE installed, and then voila - you are done! see at attached file for reference. i am sure you will find proper codec for you.

mpeg streamclip works also with batch lists very easily and rather fast.

if you need any help or info - send me P.M.

filip
 
stricko108 said:
Are u saying if I import 16 bit tiffs to avid, to DNX 36, 1080p

Its not creating mxfs at 10 bit? are you sure about that, it creates 8 bit?

Thanks
stricko
Click to expand...

If you import TIFF to a 10 bit DNxHD format, it will be 10 bit. DNxHD is not a 10 bit codec. Uncompessed 10 bit and DNxHD 175x are the 10 bit versions.

Michael
 
filip kovcin said:
Jon,

i do not know what you already tested, but if you want - check mpeg streamclip site: http://www.squared5.com/ this is one of my favorite free programs (not just mine, of course) both for windows and macs.


filip
Click to expand...

Oh my gha. I can't believe I forgot about that. Sheesh. I've used that a ton for cross converting weird video files.

I did just test the Cineform Neo HD codec (again, using it as an intermediary). So far the quality is fantastic and the files size is very reasonable. Plus it comes up in the RedCine options (obviously). I didn't see it in the RedRushes options, though. I'll look to Streamclip for batching.

And I guess I could always use the Animation Codec...but wow that makes huge files.

Thanks!

Jon
 
The same ALE created by MetaCheater will also allow sequential TIFF files to be merged into it as well. The ALE merge concept does not care what the import file format is, as long as it is something that is supported.

Michael
 
Oops. It doesn't. I was thinking ALE creation and inferred MetaCheater supported TIFF. If generating TIFF from REDrushes, create the ALE there, if from RedCine, you will be able to use the RedCine to ALE XML.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
If you import TIFF to a 10 bit DNxHD format, it will be 10 bit. DNxHD is not a 10 bit codec. Uncompessed 10 bit and DNxHD 175x are the 10 bit versions.

Michael
Click to expand...


I'm going to be importing tiffs to my 1080I 29.97 project,
my options are 145, 220, or 220x

Micheal, I want to use the best possible quality, 220x is this option
10 bit, or 8 bit, and what is 145 and 220 as well, pls list what bit each of these 3 options are.

Thanks
Stricko
 
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