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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Clarifications...

Jannard

Jannard

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We have done quite a bit of work on the DSP in the last few days and need to report a few things.

1. We have found the bug that was causing a slight resolution dip at lower ISOs. There is now no difference.

2. The absolute best ISO (closest to linear) is ISO 320. We still stand by our range of ISO 320-500 being the most practical choices for "standard".

3. As ISOs increase or decrease from 320, there is a curve adjustment to make them work. The further away from ISO 320 in either direction, the more the curve adjustment there is and the more "penalty" you pay. Most recognize that information is "pushed" to accommodate higher ISOs, the converse is true with lower ISOs (mercifully, resolution is not one of them). While ISO 125 will look great from a noise standpoint, it will not have the the same range as ISO 320 due to the "pulled" curves. Do not treat RED like your film experience... lower ISO is better. You have ISO 320 "film" in RED.

4. While a comparison of RED in a standard situation (like the charts I shot) has proven that it is extremely difficult to tell the difference from the best DSLRs, in very highly detailed, high contrast scenes (like full frame trees and grass in the noon sun), RED will drop some by comparison. The reason is the data rate. At that point you are comparing compression and not resolution. RED shoots a typical 1.5MB file with REDCODE 36 (which is why you can record 4K at 24fps to a Compact Flash card). That is compared to an 11.6MB file from the Canon 1D MKIII. While RED looks incredible in these situations for motion, you will see a difference compared to a still DSLR. It just makes "science sense".

As usual, "we calls them likes we sees them".

Jim
 
Jannard said:
1. We have found the bug that was causing a slight resolution dip at lower ISOs. There is now no difference.


Jim
Click to expand...

this is a new premium...
would be nice to see some shots with and without this bug

----with every new build red moves closer to the optimum...
 
So I guess that's some of the thinking behind epic and scarlet, at 100MB/s it should show much better resolution in high detailed scenes.
 
Jannard said:
While ISO 125 will look great from a noise standpoint, it will not have the the same range as ISO 320 due to the "pulled" curves.
Click to expand...

Just for clarification's sake:

Higher ISO = Decreased shadow latitude compared to ISO 320
Lower ISO = Decreased highlight latitude compared to ISO 320

Or is there something I'm missing?

darkline said:
So I guess that's some of the thinking behind epic and scarlet, at 100MB/s it should show much better resolution in high detailed scenes.
Click to expand...

I was under the assumption that Scarlet and Epic were still REDCODE 36, but during ~100 FPS shots the data rate scaled with the framerate so that there wasn't a hit in image quality. Might be wrong though.
 
darkline said:
So I guess that's some of the thinking behind epic and scarlet, at 100MB/s it should show much better resolution in high detailed scenes.
Click to expand...

More correctly, there would be less compression difficulties with a higher data rate. This is a great time to mention that there has been dramatic improvement of REDCODE with Build 16. We have narrowed the gap considerably. It is next to impossible to "break" the codec and codec errors should be a thing of the past. And that includes 4K 16:9. I think that our customers will be thrilled with the improvement, especially in high detail, high contrast scenes. The only reason I mention the DSLR comparison is that we just did one. Best news is that there is still a lot of room for improvement in the RED ONE. And, as always, it will be at no extra charge when we get there...

Jim
 
It all looks pretty good! Sounds like a big step forward. Image quality aside, the fixed codec errors alone are worth the wait, as is quicktime 4K 16:9 in FCP.

Dare I ask if this improvement in the code has led to any post speed enhancements? With the ability to now offer 1080p playback something tells me Redcode might now be less CPU intensive to debayer and playback, so we get a better frame rate with proxies in FCP and in Redcine transcodes.... or am I asking too much? :)
 
Jannard said:
We have done quite a bit of work on the DSP in the last few days and need to report a few things.

At that point you are comparing compression and not resolution. RED shoots a typical 1.5MB file with REDCODE 36 (which is why you can record 4K at 24fps to a Compact Flash card). That is compared to an 11.6MB file from the Canon 1D MKIII. While RED looks incredible in these situations for motion, you will see a difference compared to a still DSLR. It just makes "science sense".

As usual, "we calls them likes we sees them".

Jim
Click to expand...

Jim, will it be feasible to have another REDCODE that has lesser compression to cater to higher detailed high contrast scenes - maybe for Reddrive or maybe RedRam in future or the trade off is not worth looking at at all.

Lim
 
twlim said:
Jim, will it be feasible to have another REDCODE that has lesser compression to cater to higher detailed high contrast scenes - maybe for Reddrive or maybe RedRam in future or the trade off is not worth looking at at all.

Lim
Click to expand...

There is a limit of data rate with the compression chips in camera. But that doesn't mean we can't improve with what we have to work with. Build 16 is a perfect example of that. We have ideas to continue to improve REDCODE as we move forward. I don't think that anyone will be disappointed with the amount of information you can capture in a high detail scene for motion. It is much better than ever. But if you do a side by side with a DSLR, you can not tell the difference in most situations but under certain circumstances, you will see a difference. The difference in these isolated circumstances is slight, but I don't want any confusion about anything RED. Just remember that there are no DSLRs that shoot 24fps.

Jim
 
Can't wait. Your progress is amazing, guys.
I take my hat off (well, a cap will do).
 
I agree, amazing progress!
And your level of dedication to this project (I mean, it must be something like 4 AM in CA ??!) is very reassuring.
 
Steven-Marc said:
I agree, amazing progress!
And your level of dedication to this project (I mean, it must be something like 4 AM in CA ??!) is very reassuring.
Click to expand...

Is it that late? Oh my gosh... I forgot to go to bed. I knew there was something I was forgetting...

Jim
 
Impresive software develop, time to relax.

only one question ¿you can exploit this codec and this chips to increase the frame rate in 4k?, in future deveop, not at this night ;-)

Really, amazing effort congrats!!
 
This is all great news Jim.

Look forward to seeing the beta build later this week.

David
 
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