Red one and wildlife cinematography thread?

[Denis Buhot]

After exchanging a few private mails with some of you in the same specific field, after reading post from Lauri, Isaac and others, I think it might be interesting to stard a thread on that topic rather than search for scattered related posts all over the forum. The red one seems virtually all we need : build 16 looks really terrific, the nikon mount looks great and still lenses give jaw-dropping results, while modular design must adapt to almost any tricky situation... Yet, what's your experience in the field ? How do you deal with the current limitations of the Red one (whatever you came across when really using it). Besides, what's good for us should apply to efp/eng usage, too. And after all, joined forces might move Jim and the red team to pity us, if not hopefully distract them from the overall image quality issue ! The sooner, the better we can use this terrific imaging tool.

 

[Steve Gibby]

There's a good thread about wildlife production on the EFP/ENG for RED forum.
Link: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10263

Our Dangerous Passage Productions crews, including myself, are in Alaska right now for five months of wildlife production, including multiple television programs and two movies. We're using our seven RED ONE cameras, plus our Sony HDC1500 (in our Cineflex gimbal system), our Sony F900, and both of our Sony EX1 cameras.

Dangerous Passage has also had a crew (including Ken Corben) in Africa for the past three weeks shooting wildlife with RED ONE and an EX1.

When I'm back on the California Central Coast briefly between Alaska trips, as I am now, I regularly shoot wildlife with RED ONE. My kit for that (and in Alaska): RED ONE, RED Drive, RED EVF on ET EVF mount, Canon FD 150-600 zoom or RED 300 tele (with Optex 2x if needed), Miller Arrow 55 tripod with ET ARRI V plate, RED batteries. Most of this goes in my Tamrac 5258 backpack, the rest in my hands - then I hike out into the wilderness with it by myself, or sometimes with a production assistant, to shoot.

Most images I shoot are 4k/16x9/29.97, although for fast motion subject matter where I want slo motion, I shoot 3k/16x9/59.94.

I shot all of the footage sequences currently on the Mammoth HD Animals/Wildlife section:
http://www.mammothhd.com/XRED1/REDL03/MHD_REDL03.html

One of my production partners (Ken Corben) shot all of the Ocean Life/Underwater footage clips on Mammoth HD:
http://www.mammothhd.com/XRED1/REDL16/MHD_REDL16.html

I also shot many of the other footage sequences in the Mammoth HD RED Library, particularly in the categories of Landscapes/Scenics, Nature, Sports, Locations/Travel – US, Sunrise/Sunset, Other/Misc, Water/Waves
Link: http://www.mammothhd.com/MHD_RED4.html

I shot the footage sequences in the Mammoth HD RED Library with a big “SG” in the clip title.

We usually shoot to RED Drives, but for helicopter or small boat sequences we shoot to RED CF cards. Backing up the footage nightly to drives and LTO tapes is a necessary ritual.

In summary, my associates and me have been doing nature, wildlife, and adventure travel production with RED ONE since last August. RED ONE is an excellent camera system for these genres of production, as IMO will EPIC and Scarlet be when they’re available. We’ll buy multiple EPIC and Scarlet, and keep some of our RED ONE cameras too.

 

[Mike Van Laanen]

Gibby, I read the other thread and noticed that you seem to shoot alot in the 16:9 mode verses the 2:1. Doesn't that create problems in post flow? Could you explain how you are processing the 16:9 footage for broadcast?

 

[Steve Gibby]

Gibby, I read the other thread and noticed that you seem to shoot alot in the 16:9 mode verses the 2:1. Doesn't that create problems in post flow? Could you explain how you are processing the 16:9 footage for broadcast?

Most of our productions are destined for HDTV, thus acquisition in 16:9 makes the best sense. 16:9 is a bigger frame then 2:1, so storage and backup needs are increased. The QT proxy playback problem with 16:9 is a headache for us though. We can see the top half of the frame of the proxy, but the bottom half is psychedelic garble. That has left us with having to open all the files in REDCINE, which handles the 16:9 fine. We'll be happy when the 16:9 files are fully functional in RED Alert, because we like to check each day's shots quickly at the end of the day using the QT proxies, and then delete the shots we don't want, or ones that didn't work, before we go to REDCINE with the "keepers".

I'm alternately producing, directing, and shooting right now, and our post production staff in Alaska and California are handling the post-processing of the r3d files. Our editing is currently on FCP and SCRATCH. I believe there is no problem handling RED 16:9 files on either of those. Our r3d files for broadcast are given a one light in REDCINE, then output to ProRes 4:2:2 for editing in FCP, where they also receive further correction in Color.

 

[Mike Van Laanen]

Thanks Gibby

 

[Ernesto Salvador]

Gibby have you done any shooting in Galapagos with the RED? Just asking cause I live in Ecuador

 

[Steve Gibby]

Gibby have you done any shooting in Galapagos with the RED? Just asking cause I live in Ecuador

Not yet, but I'd like to shoot in the Galapagos some day. Some of the HD footage I've seen from there was excellent.

Since last August we've shot with our REDs in Hawaii, Alaska, Africa, the Caribbean, Mexico, Canada, and many areas of the continental USA (Rocky Mountains, Pacific Coast, etc.).

 

[Bang WOW Bang]

Not yet, but I'd like to shoot in the Galapagos some day. Some of the HD footage I've seen from there was excellent.

Since last August we've shot with our REDs in Hawaii, Alaska, Africa, the Caribbean, Mexico, Canada, and many areas of the continental USA (Rocky Mountains, Pacific Coast, etc.).

Hi Steve,

do you have any Stereoscopic 3D 4K content ? Or 2K 4:4:4 from 4K R3D files ?

Please PM me on this sector.

Stewart
HKG

 

[Russ Fill]

I'm off to west centeral Africa next week with my camera for a wild life doco. I have a while there be for the shoot starts and I haven't really ran my camera through many test as I would like to yet. Any do's and dont's for the camera in humid heat. And did you notice any (break in period)? Should I bring a few cold packs??? Or did things run smooth for the camera from out of the box? I really hate using new gear with out long use but I really have no choice as I have had to push this job about as long as I can waiting for my camera. Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm not totally nutz I do have a friend with another camera I could have some one bring to me if I started to have problems.

 

[Mark Toia]

I'm off to west centeral Africa next week with my camera for a wild life doco. I have a while there be for the shoot starts and I haven't really ran my camera through many test as I would like to yet. Any do's and dont's for the camera in humid heat. And did you notice any (break in period)? Should I bring a few cold packs??? Or did things run smooth for the camera from out of the box? I really hate using new gear with out long use but I really have no choice as I have had to push this job about as long as I can waiting for my camera. Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm not totally nutz I do have a friend with another camera I could have some one bring to me if I started to have problems.

I just did 5 countries in 9 days, hot! days on a beach, wet cold days in between skyscrapers,
Not a single glinch. (minus the normal build 15 issues)
We found just putting a white cotton towel over the camera kept the sun off the black casing kept the camera cool.
A silver heat blanket will do the same.

all good

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

... the 16:9 mode verses the 2:1. Doesn't that create problems in post flow?

Decided to stick on the 2:1 format once ran into "codec error" problems with the 16:9 mode. When shooting with wide angle lenses, small apertures, and if the image involves a lot of details, the codec fails for some reason in 16:9 mode. Never had the same problem with 2:1 format.

What comes to Denis' question of experiences, I would sum up Red One in wildlife filming as follows:

Pro
-Excellent image quality
-Versatile system that can be adapted and modified to many needs
-4 audio channels
-High speed modes

Con (as now with build 15)
-Weigth
-Power consumption
-Bit long booting up time
-Slightly instable system implying the camera may occasionally be whimsical like all computers.

However, as all the specs may change, the new builds may include a sleep mode, and in addition, the slight instability may disappear with software updates.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

Good idea to get a wildlife thread going. How about suggesting this in the REDUser User Groups Section?? Just a thought.

As for wildlife I would imagine this camera would be best suited for managed shots in controlled environments, aquarium, holding pens etc etc. When Scarlet comes out it would make mre sense given the form factor to have that as a field camera and incorporate the footage in the final project.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Denis Buhot]

Good idea to get a wildlife thread going. How about suggesting this in the REDUser User Groups Section?? Just a thought.

As for wildlife I would imagine this camera would be best suited for managed shots in controlled environments, aquarium, holding pens etc etc. When Scarlet comes out it would make mre sense given the form factor to have that as a field camera and incorporate the footage in the final project.

Cheers,
Mark.

What about interchangeable lenses ? We have to be able to use focal lengths up to 600 or 800 mm, ESPECIALLY in uncontrolled environments and when it comes to shy/dangerous species. Sleep mode and badly protected connectors left aside (true limitations...) , why do you thing real wild environments should rule out the red one ? Crew size ? Anything else ?

 

[Steve Gibby]

Our crews are in Alaska all Spring, Summer, and Fall using several REDs in uncontrolled and controlled circumstances. Using RED ONE in the field for wildlife production takes planning and forethought - and there are some workarounds. For real mobile wildlife work, physical fitness is also critical. We hike all around boats and on land with heavy loads, setup, shoot, then move to other locations. Being in good physical shape really helps.

We use RED ONE in both controlled and uncontrolled environments. The images are stellar, so IMO the extra work is well worth it.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

We use RED ONE in both controlled and uncontrolled environments. The images are stellar, so IMO the extra work is well worth it.

Agree, I also use the camera in uncontrolled environments. It works better than any other camera I've used, thanks to the large dynamic range.

 

[Denis Buhot]

For real mobile wildlife work, physical fitness is also critical. We hike all around boats and on land with heavy loads, setup, shoot, then move to other locations. Being in good physical shape really helps.

Yes, it helps a lot... BTW, how do you go around the boot-up time/no sleep mode issue ? Does your typical work not require waiting for hours with camera on, just to capture one specific shot (some wildlife shots really don't) ? Or do you just hike with 8-10 batteries, or an anton-bauer huge, 11 kg, 6hr duration new thing.. it looks hardly possible for one single person with food and the rest of the gear...
Any issue regarding the workflow ? Specific solutions to adress our kind of needs. Any answer much appreciated !

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

Or do you just hike with 8-10 batteries, or an anton-bauer huge, 11 kg, 6hr duration new thing.. it looks hardly possible for one single person with food and the rest of the gear...

When I stay 24 hours in a hide filming birds I need 4 to 6 Red bricks (batteries) and still, I use the batteries sparingly. This gives me 6-8 hours of operating time running the camera. Whether one is recording or not does not make a big difference. The Red lithium bricks has a very high energy/mass ratio, which is higher than that of NiMH batteries. So, it's difficult to reduce the mass by a choice of some other batteries.

Carrying the camera, batteries, tripod, accessories, and audio equipment by a single person at once is next to impossible. So,as Steve says, it takes some planning to manage with the system. But, at least for me, the image quality counterbalances all the trouble. I'm also looking forward to see what Scarlet will be all about. As it stands now, it seems Red One and Scarlet will be a very good combo for wildlife shooting.

Finaly, Epic will be lighter than Red One. But nothing has so far been said about the power requirements. Neither have heard any news whether one could install a Canon EF or Nikon mount on Epic.

 

[Mark Thorpe]

What about interchangeable lenses ? We have to be able to use focal lengths up to 600 or 800 mm, ESPECIALLY in uncontrolled environments and when it comes to shy/dangerous species. Sleep mode and badly protected connectors left aside (true limitations...) , why do you thing real wild environments should rule out the red one ? Crew size ? Anything else ?

I'm sure eventually someone will develop an adapter to be able to use third party lenses as they have done for the Z1, HVX200 and others, Until then it bears true what Gibby said regarding physical condition. I found myself recently running around African bush country and even though I was 12 years military and since then have worked extensively underwater and kept myself pretty darned trim, that was a tad challenging. Not impossible but not something someone without conditioning could expect to do straight off the bat.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

Carrying the camera, batteries, tripod, accessories, and audio equipment by a single person at once is next to impossible. So,as Steve says, it takes some planning to manage with the system.

This is true...the weight carried versus distance traveled is always a conundrum. Now, more than ever, with RED.

And Lauri's list doesn't even mention the laptop, the CF card reader, etc. Tape has some advantages with this style of shooting. You can really rack up the weight fast with batteries and RED drives.

I just bought a small cart for my RED gear and used it for the first time today. I haven't got the system thoroughly dialed yet, but it worked pretty well. If I strap my tripod snugly into it, then I can be more mobile, and there's also enough room in it to keep the laptop off the ground and downloading CF cards while I shoot. This cart allows me to shoot a lot of images solo and wrangle the data on-site.

I'm going to try to invent a harness system for it, so I can hands-free it, while towing the load. It's not even about fitness -- I simply don't have anywhere to put all the supporting accessories....my backpack is absolutely stuffed to the gills, and there's still more to bring along!

Having the cart makes it a lot easier to move all the stuff around, to get multiple angles on shots, which can be a challenge. I found that if I laid everything out on the ground, then I'd have to run my camera and tripod over to the new angle, than run back, and pick up the stuff off the ground and do a secondary carry to the new location--otherwise, you have to break everything down, to move it all at one time. With this cart, I can keep everything self-contained and move it all at the same time.

It can't be used for all applications, because there are places that I will go that the cart cannot, but I took it for its first run, to shoot a kayaking competition. And it worked out pretty well -- I have several modifications in mind after the first outing. But I was able to drag it along some narrow woodsy paths with no problems.

I've been fantasizing about the WILD-POD, my ultimate outdoor gear-moving machine....I'll have to invent it, though.

 

[Denis Buhot]

sigma "big" telephotos on red ?

sigma "big" telephotos on red ?

[QUOTE
I've been fantasizing about the WILD-POD, my ultimate outdoor gear-moving machine....I'll have to invent it, though.[/QUOTE]

Let us know as soon as your dream come true... and thanks for sharing dreams and experience. That won't work in montaneous ground, on steep slopes or very rocky environment, though . Let's make friends for a little help... Question, anyone ever used newest sigma lenses (300-800, or 800 mm) on the red ? Some have changed nikon 600 for sigma 500, I hear...