LENS TEST: Zeiss Super Speed (MK3) VS Zeiss ZF SLR's (Shot on RED)

[richard peterson]

I just ordered the ZF 35 f/2. The crop factor brings it up to a 50 mill. Great standard lens; light, fast and sharp.

I wish there was ZF ultra wide.

 

[Gino Papineau]

Great thank you very much !

Real test not only expactation !

 

[Stephen Williams]

Hi All,

Bear in mind that Zeiss Super Speeds are nearly 40 years old design wise & are no longer made. The last ones were sold off at half price to buyers of a 235 body. Sets used to to sell slowly around $15k as better glass is made.

I would expect a modern Zeiss to be far better, no surprise at all.

Stephen

 

[Matt Uhry]

Thanks, this is a great test - did you notice much subjective difference when looking at whole frames ? ( traveling right now and can't tell anything on my laptop )

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Very nice and methodical test.

Maybe Stephen Williams is right that should be one comparable test between Zeiss Master or Ultra Primes and Zeiss ZF.

"The second difference is the most important difference in my opinion- the SLR lenses rotate backwards."

BTW, you can use another still lens set (with a help of PST IMS and Birger EF on RED) and even get very fast still lens set on your RED for example:

- Canon EF 24mm f/1.4L USM (T1.5)
- Voigtländer-M Nokton 35mm f/1.2 (T1.3)
- Voigtländer-M Nokton 40mm f/1.4 (T1.5)
- Leica Noctilux-M 1,0/50mm (T1.1)*
- Voigtländer-M Color Heliar 75 mm f/1.2.5 (T1.3.5)
- Leica Summilux-R 1,4/80mm (T1.5)
- Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM (T1.3)

*Leica Noctilux-M 1,0/50mm (T1.1) is the fastest lens available on the market.

All lenses above can be purchased as a new and also as a vintage.

Also they all rotate like a cine lenses or to focus close to the lens you turn the lens counter clockwise.

 

[M.Halsell]

Ryan- kudos dude. That was way awesome. Thank you for the time and detail you put into the lens review. It covered most bases for people that have 'still lens' gear in their kit. We've all be thusly warned. The rest up to imagination and talent I suppose!

Mitch- I would be interested in the 'idler gear'.

Has anyone used P+S Technik Clipgear Focus Rings? Or can recommend an equivalent? Thanks.

 

[David W. Jones]

Great job.
Like you, I have also put together a Zeiss SLR kit for smaller budget projects, and rent cinema lenses when budget allows.
The difference being, I put together a Zeiss Contax set, as opposed to the Zeiss ZF lens set.
As you pointed out, the Zeiss ZF lenses are Nikon mount, and focus bassakwards.
The Zeiss Contax lenses have a C/Y lens mount, to which I have added an inexpensive C/Y to Canon EOS mount adapter.
And they focus in the same direction as the cinema lenses we rent.
I have been contacted numerous times by folks in line for the birger mount wanting to purchase my kit.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Zeiss contax/yashica

Zeiss contax/yashica

Great job.
Like you, I have also put together a Zeiss SLR kit for smaller budget projects, and rent cinema lenses when budget allows.
The difference being, I put together a Zeiss Contax set, as opposed to the Zeiss ZF lens set.
As you pointed out, the Zeiss ZF lenses are Nikon mount, and focus bassakwards.
The Zeiss Contax lenses have a C/Y lens mount, to which I have added an inexpensive C/Y to Canon EOS mount adapter.
And they focus in the same direction as the cinema lenses we rent.
I have been contacted numerous times by folks in line for the birger mount wanting to purchase my kit.

David:

I have been using Zeiss C/Y lenses on my red for several months. I have a prototype version of the birger EOS mount - it has to be controlled by a computer - so most of my shooting has been with the C/Y lenses using an adapter to the EOS mount. Somewhere on REDUSER is a thread with the Space shuttle launch we shot with the Zeiss C/Y 300mm.

The lenses perform great and as you say they focus in the "right" direction.

One of the interesting things about these lenses is if you look at the reviews from SLR people they complain that you have to turn almost a full turn to go from near to infinity - of course that's what we cine folks want!

A couple of Zeiss c/y F1.4 primes and a $20 c/y to eos adapter makes a great low light (and emergency backup) for you Birger mount.

I believe many of the ZF lenses are the same optical design as the the C/Y lenses - just a nikon mount and reversed focus direction.

Did you make a C/Y mount for the RED or are using them on some other camera?

 

[Paul Hazlett]

thanks for posting. These tests are really great to have as a resource

 

[Brian Valente]

Nice work Ryan -

I wanted to add a couple points about the comparison (Brian Valente private citizen talking here). The Zeiss ZF lenses are somewhat unique in the still world because they are designed to be color matched - I don't think you'll see that in any other still lens set because that was never an important criteria.

Also, to highlight this point (which others referred to) it's just lenses on nikon and pentax mounts that rotate the "wrong way". All other still lenses - canon, minolta, etc. - rotate the same direction as cinema lenses.

I have always felt at HD resolutions that the primary differences between still and cinema lenses are primarily in the operation and mechanical aspects (who doesn't love an AC with their own glass and who is intimately familiar with their lenses). I would have expected 4k to show a lot more differences and I think the post earlier that more modern cinema lenses would probably bear that out.

Also, I would not expect any still lens to perform as well as the zeiss (that used 50mm f1.4 manual focus nikon bought off eBay that a lot of people start with). Zeiss lenses are great an inexpensive, but not cheap: it's still $3-4k for a set.


Brian

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

I wish there was ZF ultra wide.

Me Too! Unfortunately the widest they currently go is 25mm .... I would love to be able to get a 14mm.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Thanks, this is a great test - did you notice much subjective difference when looking at whole frames ?

Overall the SLR glass felt more crisp / sharp to me - subjectively speaking. The Charts show that there is not a huge difference between the two, but it definitely felt like there was.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Nice work Ryan -

I wanted to add a couple points about the comparison (Brian Valente private citizen talking here). The Zeiss ZF lenses are somewhat unique in the still world because they are designed to be color matched - I don't think you'll see that in any other still lens set because that was never an important criteria.

Thanks- That is a good point indeed. These lenses are very well matched. When I used to have a set of Nikon glass I would sometimes see a substantial color shift from one lens to another. (Especially in a used or rented SLR) Not the case with these lenses.

I have always felt at HD resolutions that the primary differences between still and cinema lenses are primarily in the operation and mechanical aspects (who doesn't love an AC with their own glass and who is intimately familiar with their lenses). I would have expected 4k to show a lot more differences and I think the post earlier that more modern cinema lenses would probably bear that out.

I was expecting to see a larger difference between the cinema and SLR. The comments regarding the modern cinema glass would probably bear that out more. It definitely would be interesting to test that one out at some point. (I'll have to add that to the list of things to do- but it will be a while before I can do that...)

 

[Shawn Nelson]

Ryan, great test! I am curious about Stephen William's comment, is he basically saying you compared brand new SLR lenses against antique cine lenses and that a more proper demo is new SLR vs new cine?

Either way, a very excellent and thorough test.

 

[Siva Kollipara]

Also, I would not expect any still lens to perform as well as the zeiss (that used 50mm f1.4 manual focus nikon bought off eBay that a lot of people start with). Zeiss lenses are great an inexpensive, but not cheap: it's still $3-4k for a set.
Brian

This brings up the question, how Nikon 50mm 1.4D flares up against Zeiss 50mm 1.4 on RED
We always thought Birger solution could resolve some of still lens issues as they are electronically controlled for Nikon than manually controlled for ZF lenses.
Wish our Nikon supporter Evin Grant could do some tests in this regard.:sorcerer:

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Ryan, great test! I am curious about Stephen William's comment, is he basically saying you compared brand new SLR lenses against antique cine lenses and that a more proper demo is new SLR vs new cine?

Either way, a very excellent and thorough test.

I think he is saying that the differences between a cinema lens and a SLR lens would be more noticeable if a more modern lens was used. (Which is a good point.)

I selected the Superspeeds because of their popularity, and because I have a set of Zeiss SLRs. I wanted to keep the brand the same for testing consistency. Ever since the 2/3" chip cameras came out and the 35mm adapters, (And now add the RED) the Zeiss superspeeds have become very popular- so much so that it is hard to find them for sale, and people are paying top dollar for them when they do come up for sale.

I am interested in doing a comparison with the newer Master and Ultra Primes, but that will have to wait for another day.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

This brings up the question, how Nikon 50mm 1.4D flares up against Zeiss 50mm 1.4 on RED
We always thought Birger solution could resolve some of still lens issues as they are electronically controlled for Nikon than manually controlled for ZF lenses.
Wish our Nikon supporter Evin Grant could do some tests in this regard.:sorcerer:

I don't think that the electronic control will effect / improve any of the optics. (This is just a guess) Rather it will allow for control of the lens via the camera (If I understand the mount correctly.) You can get a good nikon lens- but it is harder to do when buying off of ebay, as you never really know what you are going to get until it arrives. Further more, it probably will not be very well color matched to the other lenses you have. (As pointed out by Brian, only Zeiss went the extra step and color matched all of their lenses.)

 

[Joel Kaye]

Also, I would not expect any still lens to perform as well as the zeiss (that used 50mm f1.4 manual focus nikon bought off eBay that a lot of people start with). Zeiss lenses are great an inexpensive, but not cheap: it's still $3-4k for a set.

The color matched set may be unique, but the sharpness has been tested for the 50mm lens revealing a $99 Nikon in the same category for sharpness as the Zeiss ZF. Ken Rockwell also claims the Zeiss is actually made by Cosina and not Zeiss.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/5018daf.htm
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50-comparison/index.htm

Not knocking the Zeiss as it's clearly terrific, but I'm not going to be surprised to find many lenses to be sharp enough to work with RED.

Also, the http://www.viewfactor.net/ follow focus will allow the focus direction to be reversed and the focus range to be re-calibrated to be much more usable. So that solves the main issues this review brought up.

Will AC's warm up to that combo? I don't know. But I bet many will make it work.

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

(As pointed out by Brian, only Zeiss went the extra step and color matched all of their lenses.)

If you buy set of new Leica M or R lenses they are all and ALWAYS color matched.

Leica was always taking care of it for years.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Also, the http://www.viewfactor.net/ follow focus will allow the focus direction to be reversed and the focus range to be re-calibrated to be much more usable. So that solves the main issues this review brought up.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I do not see where they mention that you can reverse the direction of the follow focus? From what others are saying, it sounds like you have to add an additional gear...