EPIC--feature request: very High Speed imaging

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

I don't know if this is the right place for a feature request like this, but a feature I would really appreciate is a very high speed "burst mode", like what the "Phantom HD" is offering us. High speed DRAM costs are going down every month, so I believe putting an (optional) 16GB or 32GB high speed buffer size for very high FPS would be a revolutionary feature without dramatically increasing the manufacturing costs.

And with 16GB, you could easily get 1.6 seconds of 1000 fps 2K, or 1s of 400fps 4K, or 2s of 3200 fps 1K, and so on...

I don't care if I've got to wait 5 minutes after the take for encoding it to the flash/drive, but to be able to shoot at very high frame rates would definitely make my life much easier when it comes to special effects shooting. And I know many other professionals who would agree with me about that particular point.

I think if you could add this feature to the EPIC, you would easily sell hundreds if not thousands more... No need for those cumbersome Photosonic, "Phantom HD" or "Weisscam" anymore! Now that would great, wouldn't it?

 

[Matt Sconce]

YES YES! That would be brilliant!

 

[Bing Bailey]

I think that really depends on the sensors ability to run at the frequency not just the media its getting copied to. phantom is able to do it by lowering the resolution. it only achieves the very highest speeds in a postage stamp standard res image

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

Thanks! I agree: this would be brilliant! And, if we think about it, Wi-Fi, which I understand will be included in the EPIC, would be a brilliant way to remote control several cameras for, let's say, synchronizing them all when shooting an explosion at very high fps!

I think the 40.000 $ price-tag would be more than justified if you could add this "very high speed imaging" feature

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

it only achieves the very highest speeds in a postage stamp standard res image

The phantom HD achieves up to 1000 fps at HD resolutions... I have seen the "great white shark eating the seal" shot at 1000fps on a phantom, and trust me, it really was spectacular on the big screen. I think the modern CMOS are able to be driven at very high frame rates, but the main issue is the buffer size and its bandwidth. Nowadays, with the latest DRAM technologies and capacities, every dream becomes possible...

 

[Michael Brennan]

Here here.
Slow motion capture works a little like inverse square law, one needs to at least double the frame rate to make a difference in the shot.

60fps is parking the car
120fps is reaching the foothills
500fps is base camp
1000fps half way
2000fps is the peak.



Epic at 500fps in +2k would make a significant impact and would put more distance between RED One and Epic.

350fps is not shabby but doesnt cut the mustard for soccer or many other ball games.


Mike Brennan

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

2000fps is the peak.

`

With 32GB of buffer, you could theoretically get up to 1.6s of 2K at 2000 fps!

No need to say the EPIC would then easily become the most sought-after camera for shooting sports...

 

[Obin Olson]

please please please 1000fps on EPIC!!! even for as few as 4 sec of realtime record...please

gotta have 1000fps for water shots and fluids

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

I agree asking for capability of high speed recording like the phantom hd.

 

[michael zaletel]

If only 4 seconds, would be nice if you could somehow play it back quickly (low res of course) to make sure you got what you wanted.

-shooter

 

[cinemano]

hum.. 40k is very unbecoming of red's approach to getting our attention. Hopefully should be 35k max.

 

[Bang WOW Bang]

please please please 1000fps on EPIC!!! even for as few as 4 sec of realtime record...please

gotta have 1000fps for water shots and fluids

Like VR-Phantom ? ( Costs at $120,000.00 !!! )
EPIC is more affordable to many people to own it.

Stew
WOW

 

[davidave]

i would love to see this feature on epic. if it becomes reality, my guess is it will put a lot of high speed rental houses out of business.

 

[Mitch Gross]

I'm glad you're all so interested in making a Phantom camera. Anyone interested in one can come see me at the Abel booth or contact me anytime.

What d you find cumbersome about the Phantom? It's smaller size than the Red One? It's comfortable shoulder mount? The color viewfinder? The CineMag that allows recording of vast amounts of data? Please let me know.

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

I'm glad you're all so interested in making a Phantom camera.

Thanks for joining this discussion, Mitch.

Let me first rephrase my opinion. I think it is inevitable for specialty movie cameras like high speed Phantom HD to progressively disappear from the marketplace because the state-of-the-art technology required to build such a camera will eventually become much more accessible... This is exactly what happened to many other fields in technology. For instance, I have nothing against Avid, but the fact of the matter is that they are struggling to keep their market-share. The good old days when Avid could sell one single workstation at the price of an apartment are long gone... Nowadays, anyone can buy a Mac-Pro and Final Cut studio and build an editing workstation which is as capable as Avid top-of-the-line's stations at a fraction of the cost. The same story happened with the Red One BTW. This is the natural evolution in the world of technology...

This is what I believe... Please don't take offense of my opinion. I truly respect your business and in particular, the Phantom camera which you offer for rental.

What d you find cumbersome about the Phantom?

The simple fact we have to rent a different camera when we shoot explosions at very high frame rates! And just for those particular shots; after that, we've got the challenge to match shots taken by different cameras. The fact that the Phantom is far from being "cheap" as well... It's easily twice as expensive as a Red, when it comes to rental prices of a full package. But you are right: compared to the old-fashioned 35mm Photosonic cameras, the Phantom is a great step forward in comfort, size, weight, etc.

Nevertheless, it is my firm belief that Red would be very smart to add this "high speed imaging feature" in their top-of-the-line EPIC cameras. I'm not asking for more than 1000 fps at 2K... which would leave the very very high speed imaging needs to specialty cameras like the Phantom v12. Because, to be perfectly honest, I don't think we, film-makers, will often need more than 1000 fps anyway. Should I need to show a bullet's flight, I'd probably use a CGI bullet anyway...

 

[Brent J. Craig]

... if we think about it, Wi-Fi, which I understand will be included in the EPIC, would be a brilliant way to remote control several cameras for, let's say, synchronizing them all when shooting an explosion at very high fps!

I don't think I would trust a very expensive shot like an explosion to anything using Wi-Fi! I would consider it more for day-to-day camera control, timecode logging, user friendly settings, etc. When a dropped connection could cost thousands of dollars, not so much!

 

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Yes EPIC with at least 2K/1000 per sec. Could even cost 10'000$ more ;-) SlowMo opens you up a different world which RED is familiar with....

 

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

I don't think I would trust a very expensive shot like an explosion to anything using Wi-Fi!

Good point! But there are technical solutions to make sure the Wi-Fi connection is working properly before pressing the "REC" button. Anyway, if you're uncomfortable with Wi-Fi, I'm pretty sure there could be wired alternatives too... The point was: if you only have 2 or 3 seconds of recording time, you'd better not waste a single fraction of second... And Wi-Fi offers us a very convenient way to do so.

 

[Mitch Gross]

There is some very special functionality built into a camera that allows it to capture high frame rates. This would force up the price of the Epic or any other camera. Also, you're asking Redcode to do a hell of a lot of work, compressing a ton of info very, very fast. And the chip design has to be changed in order to clock it hat fast. Remember how the first cameras had a little overheating problem that needed a hardware fix? You wouldn't believe the stress high frame rates put on the chip.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible, but what it might cost to make the camera do it may not be worth it to you in the end.

 

[Steve Phillipps]

The great white was shot on Photron, not Phantom, and it's not HD res, just 1024x1024 I believe. The Phantom is a whole load better. And with 16gb it'll do nearly 5 seconds at 1000fps HD.
Steve