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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The difference between a DIT, AC, DAM on set, and do i need them?

dino g

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I was recently on a set with a camera from a rental house. (just by chance).

Typically, for the past 6 months, i am the one guy on set with a RED, the one guy that touches the camera and pays close attention to the details of the camera during the entire shoot. occasionally, a forward thinking AC or DP will learn how to format a card and insert themselves into the mix, but that sometimes has dire consequences, as the DP and AC are focused ultimately on other goals besides formating drives, so errors happen.

well on this particular job the AC told me that he had been trained on the camera and that he had done 4 jobs with it, so he doesn't need a DIT, he has a kid come out and be a DAM (digital asset manager).

IMHO, that may be fine for a student film or a pet project, but for a professional job where a production company is getting paid by a client or agency to shoot a spot or Music video or even worse a feature, personally after doing this as long as anyone, i disagree with that approach and ill tell you why.

yes the red camera is simple to use.

yes the red camera is very intuitive.

yes the red camera is easy to set up.

yes the images it allows you to create are exceptional, stunning, breath taking, like no other.

BUT, you have one shot at a perfect shot, the stars have aligned and everything is in place.

the lights, the camera, the actor, the director, the client, the monitors are all in place and engaged. the make up is on, the wardrobe has been fitted, the sticks have been slapped.

the director is paying attention to the performances
the DP is paying attention to the composition of the shot
the AC is paying attention to the focus. (period)

(side note, if you have not already figured it out, focus is very very important with this camera, softness comes quickly and if you are not paying absolute attention to it, you will loose it.)

in this guys example, the DAM is paying attention to whether or not A002_C003_080321.RDC is moved to drive 1, 2 & 3.

so whom is paying attention to the:

shutter speed of the camera
the f-stop
the histogram
the format (4k, 4k 2:1, 2k 16:9, 2k 2:1...)
the project frame rate
the actual frame rate
the color temperature
the client monitors
the zebras
the temperature of the camera
the sound levels on the camera
the record light on the camera
the clipping traffic signal
the dropped frames meter
the quality of the codec
the reel number
the camera letter
the media level
the battery level
the timecode sync
the timecode turning to red
the red post message
the actual temp of the body

and that is while you are rolling or just before you are rolling.

(and yes the first couple of things on this list the dp and 1st ac are paying attention to and are setting, but sometimes when formatting a card or setting a shutter or changing formats, buttons get pushed that did not mean to get pushed and settings change, that is why it is important to consistently look at the back of the camera to monitor what is happening - and the dp and 1st have other concerns when rolling)

when the media comes off the card.

is the "kid" DAM, doing a complete QC of all of the takes to make sure each take is:

playable
composed correctly
has no boom mic in the shot
is not clipped
has a balanced key-able green screen
cuts together nicely
is capable of being color corrected into the zone that the director and dp, client, agency had in mind or wanted
on and on and on


there are many many things to think about and this very small list, that i just wrote off the top of my head after 93 days on set with the camera and 50 spots, 6 music videos, 2 features, 10 short films, 5 continents and over 25 terabytes of content shot on CF cards, only scratches the surface of what is required of a true DIT/ Red Tech on set.

I am sorry but an AC can not pay attention to all of this and pull focus, change lenses, check his email on his iPhone, text his girlfriend, text the craft service girl, set the focus motor, add a filter, check the USC Score on his iPhone.....

1st AC is a full time job, it has not changed one bit since 35mm was shot, it requires a very seasoned professional that has been trained in the art of taking care of expensive equipment, making talented dp's and directors look good and watching the backs of the director and dp to make sure that everything they are supposed to do is done and helping them out when they make honest errors. the job revolves around them, if they drop a lens, the game is over, if they forget the focus motor cable, game over, if they miss focus, they do not work with that dp again.

so, pick your battles.

again, IMHO, a professional red shoot requires a dedicated 1st AC. and a separate dedicated DIT/Red Tech. now if that DIT/Red Tech is very good at his/her job; they can also act as the DAM, but if there are multiple cameras, or an inexperienced tech, you may need a DAM to help wrangle cards, transfer, correct and build timelines.

now i am sure there are going to be many of you out there that are going to scream bloody murder over this post and spout all day long about how your guys can do this or that how you as an owner operator are capable of this or that. i am not talking about a 5 man crew and a owner dp/director/producer production company owner using the camera.

i am talking about a professional job where you are hiring out your camera or you are renting a camera from a rental house and they try and convince you that you do not need a DIT. it is inexperience talking that says a DIT is not needed on set, that is just my opinion.

i look forward to debate.
 
From being an AC and a DAM/DIT on music videos and commercials using HVX, I would fully agree with EVERYTHING you said. Its an impossible job to pull focus, change lenses, wrangle cards, check data, insure write protection, format cards, check shots, check zebra, check composition, tell the grip to fetch you another cup of coffee (just kidding), and get everything done at %100 of your ability. Working with a RED is probably a few more steps up from HVX work, but the base concepts are the same and when you're renting a RED for $2000 a day on an low budget indie set, having to reshoot because you flubbed a shot or didn't check the CF card, can really mess up your production.

Just my 2 cents from an indie filmmaker with a sliver of the experience as everyone else on this board.
 
I have a friend that remembers reading on CML a while back; the only thing that is going to change on set when digital cinema cameras arrive, is the camera.

I tell people that if you are comfortable with shooting 35mm, then this camera should feel at home to you.

I think a lot of expectations were built up for digital, based on the varicam/prosumer HVX200 with adapter cameras going out with just a 1st AC. Clients were expecting the 1st to do everything, even DIT!

Many of us made the mistake to not request a DIT, but when we did, and the producer saw the benefit, DIT's became much more widely used.

After using the RED on a shoot last week, I saw the Film work flow come back, and it was great. I was always wondering when the prosumer work flow was going to end, and I think it's here.

Jamie
 
"the AC is paying attention to the focus. (period) ""

AC's pay attention to allot more then focus ..

looking over at FILM production ...
AC's keeps a eye on most items on your list...

shutter speed of the camera = DP tells AC what to set it at .. AC then keeps eye on it ...
the f-stop = DP tells AC
the histogram = DP
the format (4k, 4k 2:1, 2k 16:9, 2k 2:1...) = DP tells AC
the project frame rate = DP tells AC
the actual frame rate = DP tell AC ...AC keep eye on it
the color temperature = DP wil tell AC/operator to set at 3200 or 5600K - DP will decide if they do white balances
the client monitors = video village
the zebras = DP will decide if they use it /operator will let DP know
the temperature of the camera = AC /operator
the sound levels on the camera = soundman will let you know /AC/operator
the record light on the camera = AC
the clipping traffic signal = DP
the dropped frames meter =AC /operator
the quality of the codec = DP will decide
the reel number = AC
the camera letter = AC
the media level = AC
the battery level =AC
the timecode sync = AC
the timecode turning to red = AC /operator
the red post message = operator
the actual temp of the body = AC

"I am sorry but an AC can not pay attention to all of this and pull focus, change lenses, check his email on his iPhone, text his girlfriend, text the craft service girl, set the focus motor, add a filter, check the USC Score on his iPhone....."

good AC's can do all of the above & more...

"playable
composed correctly
has no boom mic in the shot
is not clipped
has a balanced key-able green screen
cuts together nicely
is capable of being color corrected into the zone that the director and dp, client, agency had in mind or wanted
on and on and on"

the above is TRUE using any camera ... each project will decide how to handle it ...

perhaps it's the word DIT ... i have experience , i have a RED , and we don't need a traditional "DIT" type on set ... we do need somebody to handle data ... i have noticed that directors do like it if FCP is on set and they can look at shoots back to back and do a little trimming = so far that has been the data person ...

i think it all comes down to the project ... some will have DIT's types and others will not ...
also depends on size of camera crew ... if only 1st AC then should be somebdoy else ( DIT type) on data .. but if you have a 1st, 2nd , loader then it changes ... every production will have to decide ... IMO you canNOT have 1st AC handling data ....

at some point it comes down to either RED records the data correctly or it doesn't ... i don't see every frame being checked on camera's that record to tape or every roll of FILM being run down to the lab as soon as it's pulled off the camera to make sure all is correct ...
IMO the more one tells producers they need somebody to check every frame etc = the producer is going to raise question if they should be using RED on their project ...
 
Working with a RED is probably a few more steps up from HVX work, but the base concepts are the same and when you're renting a RED

Similar, but not. The HVX + 35mm was always a fragile, and fickle experience for me. The RED experience was not, even in beta stages.
 
I think anyone on the production side of the discussion will agree... We've all had this discussion a million times. It will only become a debate when a producer/director answers to this.
 
It's all depending on how large your project is. And it's always comes down to money; how much will you lose if you have to re-film a scene (if possible), contra how large crew you can handle money-wise.
 
i am a producer first, so i write what i wrote from a producers perspective first given my knowledge of the camera. having insurance on the books is one thing, having insurance by having the right crew and tools, is certainly better.
 
donatello, you are not the intended audience, you have a camera and your an ac/dp...your not whom i am speaking to, you know the camera and know what to pay attention to.

and yes ac/dp are responsible for all of those things, but with the new platform and pressure, sometimes they focus on their first couple of things and some of these things fall off, which becomes a problem later.

i am talking about 1st and 2nd timers, use the camera 6-7 times and you become very good at monitoring all of these things, but the first few gigs...you do not know what you do not know...

just sharing my experiences, again, not a contest, just trying to share the knowledge and grow the platform.
 
There is some debate about this in my market already. Some will want to go with skeleton crews, handling a lot of the tasks via an assistant or someone they put in place who they are comfortable with. I'm offering my camera to productions that need not only the camera but someone who can support it on set, manage data, and provide instant feedback to the director/producer about the shots. That has been my buisness model from the beginning. But it won't be for everybody. Some clients will just want the camera and they will run and gun, utlizing whoever they have available to handle the tasks i just mentioned.

To me, the smoothest HVX shoots I've been on were the ones where there is a person dedicated to managing media. It makes the producers able to sleep at night.
 
donatello, you are not the intended audience, you have a camera and your an ac/dp...your not whom i am speaking to, you know the camera and know what to pay attention to.

kosmos3d and donatello:

Fellows like myself can learn a lot from both of you, and already have. Now I have a check list. Can some cooler heads prevail here. Thanks. I am looking forward to many more posts from both of you. I don't want the information to dry-up. Keep up the good discussion, please.
 
Kos, thanks for this thread. I'm going to highlight your first post, print it out, and give it to any producer who says, what is a DIT and why do you need one? I was on one feature as DP where we had one because we had two HVX cams running all the time and only four 8 gig cards and two 4 gig cards, total. This was several years ago when we just called that person the "downloader". And I've done a lot of shooting without one since, and I think it's just a matter of time before this practise jumps up and takes a huge chunk out of my butt. I just now came to this conclusion, reading your post, so THANK YOU. I think that the way to put this to producers is to say that the DIT takes the place of the loader/2nd AC and the laboratory! Maybe then they will see that the DIT is an economy, not a extra.
 
Douglas,
I don't expect my DIT to Slate, help with changing Lenses, and take camera reports...etc, do you?

Kos, thanks for this thread. I'm going to highlight your first post, print it out, and give it to any producer who says, what is a DIT and why do you need one? I was on one feature as DP where we had one because we had two HVX cams running all the time and only four 8 gig cards and two 4 gig cards, total. This was several years ago when we just called that person the "downloader". And I've done a lot of shooting without one since, and I think it's just a matter of time before this practise jumps up and takes a huge chunk out of my butt. I just now came to this conclusion, reading your post, so THANK YOU. I think that the way to put this to producers is to say that the DIT takes the place of the loader/2nd AC and the laboratory! Maybe then they will see that the DIT is an economy, not a extra.
 
I have heard from RED-owner-operators who does everything by themselves, for $500/day including the equipment. Even cheaper on monthly rates.
 
I have heard from RED-owner-operators who does everything by themselves, for $500/day including the equipment. Even cheaper on monthly rates.

They are lowballing even themselves, then! I can't imagine that their shoots are that big? Besides, there are many details you left out, including the type of shoot (locked off shots would be easy), days, 35 lenses....etc.

I can't imagine them doing everything on a feature...who is going to make jokes to them?
 
I think that the way to put this to producers is to say that the DIT takes the place of the loader/2nd AC and the laboratory!

They most definitely do not replace a 2nd AC! Who do you expect will do the: slating, cabling, marking actors, lens changes, camera reports, cover for the AC for bathroom breaks?

A DIT/Data Wrangler takes over just one of the many tasks a 2nd AC does. They are required now because that one task of dealing with media has become bigger and more complicated in the digital world. You are no longer emptying out a mag and taping up a can - you are required to have Information Technology skills.

I think that you can sell the position to producers for several reasons, the main one being security - the data person holds the entire shoot in their hands. Their attention, skill and accuracy can literally make or break your shoot. You could also explain that some of the money saved on film stock and lab processing is offset by the need to have someone on set to deal with the footage. Shooting digital is much less expensive than film, but there IS a cost associated with doing it right.

A dedicated data wrangler doesn't just download cards - they verify takes for quality and focus, make backups in case of disaster, work with the DP on rough color settings, sometimes help with playback, and (very importantly) they create a logical and organized file system that streamlines the entire post process from editing right through to the online.
 
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