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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Apple Event — March 8

Jeff Kilgroe said:
As for the Studio Display itself, it's nice. But like a few of the reviews point out, the lack of HDR / XDR is a bit disappointing. And yet, this is built on LG's latest edition of their 27" 5K panel -- two revisions newer than the panel used in the LG UltraFine 5K monitor which is now discontinued. It is noticeably better than the 5K UltraFiine, mostly brighter and the viewing angles are better.
Click to expand...

How do you find the 24" UHD UltraFine? I'm looking for a small monitor (27" I could do but no bigger) to complement a MacBook Pro for work.

Can HDR/XDR mess things up for color grading and compositing because of local dimming zones messing with black levels?

For professional Resolve, Nuke, After Effects work what's the best affordable monitor? Btw – do you notice you need a better monitor for grading and still photography than for compositing? Since with compositing the colors are being set relative to the plate that's already shot? Would you recommend a different monitor to a Nuke artist and a colorist?
 
Thanks for all of that great info Jeff! I had to replace so many laptop and other computer accessory cords that to think that the Studio Display's cord was not replaceable made it completely undesirable.
 
Matt W. said:
How do you find the 24" UHD UltraFine? I'm looking for a small monitor (27" I could do but no bigger) to complement a MacBook Pro for work.
Click to expand...

I've never really used the 24" 4K UltraFine, just seen it a few times. Looks OK, but dated and crappy/ cheap build quality like the UltraFine 5K. I don't know if they're discontinuing the 24" or not.

That said, 24" and 4K are a great combo for the Mac. I've used a couple 24" 4K Dell monitors for a few years now on a couple different workstations. I sold my iMac Pro (5K 27") a few months back and have been using my M1 Max MBP for most everything except the very heavy lifting. I moved one of those 4K Dell monitors to my desk to use with the MBP and it's an 8 year old model that I originally bought for the trashcan Mac Pro. The newer Macs no longer support DisplayPort Multi Stream Transport unless the streams are keyed to separate displays. So that means this old Dell, which used DP v1.1 MST to effectively send two streams to the display in order to get 4K @ 60Hz can only run at 30Hz with newer Macs. A real pain, but it's time to upgrade it so I'm getting the Studio Display for my home office desk. I get roughly the same PPI, more pixels and 5K screen real estate, effectively the same outside dimensions as the new monitor is much slimmer all around and 600nits brightness vs the 350nits of the old Dell. I ordered with the VESA mount since I'll be attaching it to a display arm that currently holds the Dell monitor, and the iMac Pro before that.

Can HDR/XDR mess things up for color grading and compositing because of local dimming zones messing with black levels?
Click to expand...
HDR or the XDR extended range on Apple's 6K display are great for color grading. An HDR display gives the ability to actually see what you're trying to create if you're working with HDR content. Otherwise it's a lesser approximation. For all the other times you don't need HDR gamut, it's easy to use a profile that restricts to your target. No display is perfect, not even $10K+ OLED or quantum dot displays. The Apple 6K XDR has some issues with blooming and irregular blacks with its local dimming.

I'm still using my old SONY 600ES projector for my video color work. No HDR support, but has great DR and color accuracy, clients love seeing it happen on the large projection screen. For photo and print work I'm using mostly ASUS monitors...

For professional Resolve, Nuke, After Effects work what's the best affordable monitor? Btw – do you notice you need a better monitor for grading and still photography than for compositing? Since with compositing the colors are being set relative to the plate that's already shot? Would you recommend a different monitor to a Nuke artist and a colorist?
Click to expand...
This is a question many of us have wrestled with here for many years. I don't think there is a "best" monitor, affordable or otherwise. In my experience, one of the first considerations is the delivery target you're shooting for. If it's going to theatrical projection, then a capable projector is truly the way to go. If you're targeting streaming services ending up on HDTVs, phones, tablets and countless other devices, then all bets are off to some degree. I really would recommend a good 4K HDR TV. Like a Samsung QLED is a great option here -- FALD system, excellent blacks and colors, some of the new models are right up there with OLED for many things, less susceptible to burn-in and motion smearing and a whole lot cheaper. I have a 49" SONY XBR900ES HDR 4K in my office that I use for HDR stuff my projector can't handle or when I want to work on something small and can do it from my MBP. I bought that TV nearly 3 years ago and it works great -- the Android based interface is a clunky mess, but otherwise great. I think I paid $850 for it at the time.

You can try to do it all from a single desktop monitor like the Studio Display or a 4K UltraFine or whatever... Often it works just great. Where I struggle with that is for video or motion graphics color work. I really need s dedicated display just for my output. And price-wise, Studio Display is $1600. A Dell 27" 4K is like $425 and a 43" 4K QLED HDR is like $600. So do the math on that one.

If I were on a Mac and trying to "do it all" with one monitor, the Apple 6K XDR is the way to go. Regardless of whether it's Nuke, Resolve, Photoshop, etc.. For color finishing, having a dedicated 4K HDR display/TV for any film/video work is definitely the way to go. If you're not working in HDR and if you're doing mostly photo or print work, something like the Studio Display is probably the right choice. So many options that can give an edge for different use cases. It's like when people try to build one workstation PC to rule them all and do everything. Never works out... You have to build for the target that meets the most important or frequent needs. For a Nuke artist vs. a Colorist, this comes down to individual setting and scope. In a larger production house a Nuke compositor may be working in flat color spaces or with elements that have already been through initial color timing and they will be doing minimal grading or none at all. They need some color accuracy but not the full blown grading monitor or setup. Us smaller indie types would look at it differently and we may be doing a lot of our initial color work as we're in the compositing process and I know I'll be building and previewing much on that SONY LED or Projector as I'm working throughout my process.

I think the question is how do YOU want to work? And then is there a display or combination of displays that can deliver what you want inside your budget... I've helped a lot of people in this community build workflows. Most people are more productive if they can build their own workflow rather than trying to adopt what works for someone else.

Anyway, that's probably way too lengthy and I feel like I'm rambling. It's almost 2:30AM and I fear this is teetering on the fence between a 2AM shitpost and something mildly useful. Hope there was something good in all that.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
I've never really used the 24" 4K UltraFine, just seen it a few times. Looks OK, but dated and crappy/ cheap build quality like the UltraFine 5K. I don't know if they're discontinuing the 24" or not.

That said, 24" and 4K are a great combo for the Mac. I've used a couple 24" 4K Dell monitors for a few years now on a couple different workstations. I sold my iMac Pro (5K 27") a few months back and have been using my M1 Max MBP for most everything except the very heavy lifting. I moved one of those 4K Dell monitors to my desk to use with the MBP and it's an 8 year old model that I originally bought for the trashcan Mac Pro. The newer Macs no longer support DisplayPort Multi Stream Transport unless the streams are keyed to separate displays. So that means this old Dell, which used DP v1.1 MST to effectively send two streams to the display in order to get 4K @ 60Hz can only run at 30Hz with newer Macs. A real pain, but it's time to upgrade it so I'm getting the Studio Display for my home office desk. I get roughly the same PPI, more pixels and 5K screen real estate, effectively the same outside dimensions as the new monitor is much slimmer all around and 600nits brightness vs the 350nits of the old Dell. I ordered with the VESA mount since I'll be attaching it to a display arm that currently holds the Dell monitor, and the iMac Pro before that.


HDR or the XDR extended range on Apple's 6K display are great for color grading. An HDR display gives the ability to actually see what you're trying to create if you're working with HDR content. Otherwise it's a lesser approximation. For all the other times you don't need HDR gamut, it's easy to use a profile that restricts to your target. No display is perfect, not even $10K+ OLED or quantum dot displays. The Apple 6K XDR has some issues with blooming and irregular blacks with its local dimming.

I'm still using my old SONY 600ES projector for my video color work. No HDR support, but has great DR and color accuracy, clients love seeing it happen on the large projection screen. For photo and print work I'm using mostly ASUS monitors...


This is a question many of us have wrestled with here for many years. I don't think there is a "best" monitor, affordable or otherwise. In my experience, one of the first considerations is the delivery target you're shooting for. If it's going to theatrical projection, then a capable projector is truly the way to go. If you're targeting streaming services ending up on HDTVs, phones, tablets and countless other devices, then all bets are off to some degree. I really would recommend a good 4K HDR TV. Like a Samsung QLED is a great option here -- FALD system, excellent blacks and colors, some of the new models are right up there with OLED for many things, less susceptible to burn-in and motion smearing and a whole lot cheaper. I have a 49" SONY XBR900ES HDR 4K in my office that I use for HDR stuff my projector can't handle or when I want to work on something small and can do it from my MBP. I bought that TV nearly 3 years ago and it works great -- the Android based interface is a clunky mess, but otherwise great. I think I paid $850 for it at the time.

You can try to do it all from a single desktop monitor like the Studio Display or a 4K UltraFine or whatever... Often it works just great. Where I struggle with that is for video or motion graphics color work. I really need s dedicated display just for my output. And price-wise, Studio Display is $1600. A Dell 27" 4K is like $425 and a 43" 4K QLED HDR is like $600. So do the math on that one.

If I were on a Mac and trying to "do it all" with one monitor, the Apple 6K XDR is the way to go. Regardless of whether it's Nuke, Resolve, Photoshop, etc.. For color finishing, having a dedicated 4K HDR display/TV for any film/video work is definitely the way to go. If you're not working in HDR and if you're doing mostly photo or print work, something like the Studio Display is probably the right choice. So many options that can give an edge for different use cases. It's like when people try to build one workstation PC to rule them all and do everything. Never works out... You have to build for the target that meets the most important or frequent needs. For a Nuke artist vs. a Colorist, this comes down to individual setting and scope. In a larger production house a Nuke compositor may be working in flat color spaces or with elements that have already been through initial color timing and they will be doing minimal grading or none at all. They need some color accuracy but not the full blown grading monitor or setup. Us smaller indie types would look at it differently and we may be doing a lot of our initial color work as we're in the compositing process and I know I'll be building and previewing much on that SONY LED or Projector as I'm working throughout my process.

I think the question is how do YOU want to work? And then is there a display or combination of displays that can deliver what you want inside your budget... I've helped a lot of people in this community build workflows. Most people are more productive if they can build their own workflow rather than trying to adopt what works for someone else.

Anyway, that's probably way too lengthy and I feel like I'm rambling. It's almost 2:30AM and I fear this is teetering on the fence between a 2AM shitpost and something mildly useful. Hope there was something good in all that.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's definitely very useful.

Who's mastering in HDR? For what audience? I think I've yet to work on a show going to HDR so that's not for me.

Would you consider the 4K 24" Ultrafine a good option for compositing? Is there an affordable way to calibrate it for basic color work/Resolve?

Why do you want a calibrated display for graphics/titles?

I think it's between a 24" Ultrafine, a 27" 4K dell, and a Studio Display for me. I'm on an i9 MBP now will probably get an M1 Max next and then that display will be better than my desktop display.

I do a lot of work with my laptop's display but I need something bigger so I don't get eye strain. :/
 
rand thompson said:
Thanks for all of that great info Jeff! I had to replace so many laptop and other computer accessory cords that to think that the Studio Display's cord was not replaceable made it completely undesirable.
Click to expand...

Thingiverse and other sites now have the STL files for the little push tool for ejecting the Studio Display power cable. Heh.... I haven't looked at the size specifically, but I also saw a Korean review somewhere that first pointed this out and the guy ejected the cable with a chopstick. I think it was the same reviewer that leaked the review of his yellow M1 iMac before the embargo lifted. I really don't understand the logic behind their design here.
 
Jeff,

Yeah, not everyone will be as astute as you have shown, not even some of the reviewer whom I would have thought would have known this. I don't understand either why apple made this such an issue to find out how to remove this cord.
 
Matt W. said:
Thanks! That's definitely very useful.

Who's mastering in HDR? For what audience? I think I've yet to work on a show going to HDR so that's not for me.
Click to expand...

HDR is mostly studios with real budgets. But yes, people are mastering in HDR for Netflix, Disney+, Apple, etc.. I've done a few HDR things, but small stuff, destined for phone displays (game stuff actually). There's a bunch on YouTube from indie people showing they can do it or small production houses showing off. Found some really cool ones from a couple guys doing slow motion paint and dye effects that look great on the new M1 Max MBP... So yes, HDR is becoming a thing, but I wouldn't worry about that for your desktop monitor at this point.

Would you consider the 4K 24" Ultrafine a good option for compositing? Is there an affordable way to calibrate it for basic color work/Resolve?
Click to expand...

It's an affordable option and it will give you a better balanced image than the base Dell 4K. I would use software tools and reference images to calibrate your display when you're talking about the UltraFine 4K or cheaper Dell... The Apple Studio Display should need little to no calibration other than tweaks through the display settings to account for your ambient lighting. And the Dell PremiereColor 27" 4K ($1600 as well) is also factory calibrated and has an in-built colorimeter. I don't know how well their colorimeter system works with the Mac though.

There are tons of discussions on this around these forums and on the Resolve groups or elsewhere.

Why do you want a calibrated display for graphics/titles?
Click to expand...
You don't necessarily need it calibrated, but it's best to have something with reliable or consistent color space so you can create or work with stuff that looks reasonably close to your desired final product.

I think it's between a 24" Ultrafine, a 27" 4K dell, and a Studio Display for me. I'm on an i9 MBP now will probably get an M1 Max next and then that display will be better than my desktop display.

I do a lot of work with my laptop's display but I need something bigger so I don't get eye strain. :/
Click to expand...

I hear you on the eye strain. That's why I use the separate display for my MBP. I spend so many hours writing code or other things that the larger screen helps a ton. I have great eyes, don't want to wear them out any faster than I have to. And as I get older, the eye strain and fatigue sets in faster.

For the monitors you're considering, you have the Dell U2720Q 27" 4K at $550-ish, I'v seen it as cheap as $425 on sale if you time it right. Then there's the UltraFine 4K at $650~$700, it's a bit better on paper but I have not seen it side by side with the Dell I just mentioned. It's smaller and while I really like 4K at 24" for the retina scaling aspect, you may want to go for the 27" size at 4K to minimize some of the potential eye strain. I would say they're probably comparable in terms of image quality. Next up is the Apple Studio Display and then the Dell PremiereColor UP2720Q, both at $1600... I would definitely go for the Dell for PC use, for the Mac I would probably go Studio Display as it's going to fully integrate with the Mac and you get more pixels in the same size.

Do you have a MicroCenter or other large computer store near you? They usually have several monitors on display -- Dell, Samsung, ASUS, LG, etc.. You can go look at them with your own eyes and play with settings. Bring your MBP and plug in... You'll probably need your own USB-C/TB to DisplayPort cable or adapter.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
HDR is mostly studios with real budgets. But yes, people are mastering in HDR for Netflix, Disney+, Apple, etc.. I've done a few HDR things, but small stuff, destined for phone displays (game stuff actually). There's a bunch on YouTube from indie people showing they can do it or small production houses showing off. Found some really cool ones from a couple guys doing slow motion paint and dye effects that look great on the new M1 Max MBP... So yes, HDR is becoming a thing, but I wouldn't worry about that for your desktop monitor at this point.



It's an affordable option and it will give you a better balanced image than the base Dell 4K. I would use software tools and reference images to calibrate your display when you're talking about the UltraFine 4K or cheaper Dell... The Apple Studio Display should need little to no calibration other than tweaks through the display settings to account for your ambient lighting. And the Dell PremiereColor 27" 4K ($1600 as well) is also factory calibrated and has an in-built colorimeter. I don't know how well their colorimeter system works with the Mac though.

There are tons of discussions on this around these forums and on the Resolve groups or elsewhere.


You don't necessarily need it calibrated, but it's best to have something with reliable or consistent color space so you can create or work with stuff that looks reasonably close to your desired final product.



I hear you on the eye strain. That's why I use the separate display for my MBP. I spend so many hours writing code or other things that the larger screen helps a ton. I have great eyes, don't want to wear them out any faster than I have to. And as I get older, the eye strain and fatigue sets in faster.

For the monitors you're considering, you have the Dell U2720Q 27" 4K at $550-ish, I'v seen it as cheap as $425 on sale if you time it right. Then there's the UltraFine 4K at $650~$700, it's a bit better on paper but I have not seen it side by side with the Dell I just mentioned. It's smaller and while I really like 4K at 24" for the retina scaling aspect, you may want to go for the 27" size at 4K to minimize some of the potential eye strain. I would say they're probably comparable in terms of image quality. Next up is the Apple Studio Display and then the Dell PremiereColor UP2720Q, both at $1600... I would definitely go for the Dell for PC use, for the Mac I would probably go Studio Display as it's going to fully integrate with the Mac and you get more pixels in the same size.

Do you have a MicroCenter or other large computer store near you? They usually have several monitors on display -- Dell, Samsung, ASUS, LG, etc.. You can go look at them with your own eyes and play with settings. Bring your MBP and plug in... You'll probably need your own USB-C/TB to DisplayPort cable or adapter.
Click to expand...

Thanks again. Back in 2015 I got my eyes on some of the either 10K or 40K nit HDR demos and they blew me away. Maybe I'm spoiled. But HDR hasn't done much for me since.

I've been using the C4K 21.5" UltraFine lately. But the edges have a lot of color bleed and even this display is giving me eye strain now. Maybe I'll spring for the Studio Display in a year or two. The Dell looks great, but at 350 nits I have questions if that's better than the 24" UltraFine at 500 nits.

I've noticed color looks different in Resolve from how it looks in Finder and this drives me nuts. I don't print anything anymore, and so far have been using Premiere, Nuke, Photoshop, and After Effects without any color management. So I haven't had to calibrate anything yet since the color is just relative to the original plate and someone else is grading it. Starting to think I should just accept I'm not a colorist and leave that part to someone else. (Or visit someone else to fine tune my work.) Getting into Blender now but the only professional Blender work I'll be doing will be composited into Log C footage or something so I can just keep color relative then and the more creative Blender work won't be paid so what's it matter?

Guess it's between the 24" UltraFine and the 27" Studio Display then visiting a friend when I need to grade something.
 
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