Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm NEO 4K Beta, RedCine compatible, and available for trial.

D

David Newman

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
718
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Website
cineform.blogspot.com
Since RedCine became available (48 hours ago) we have been tweaking the CineForm QuickTime engine so that we can offer CineForm NEO 4K. Fortunately Red's timing was good as we were about to release a new version of all our Products, and we had NEO 4K beta ready, just in case.

If you are new to CineForm (where have you been?) here what you need to know : CineForm offers a 4:2:2 and 4:4:4+ wavelet compressed digital intermediate format, that gives the visual quality of DPX files without the huge file sizes, and is pretty fast. We support either AVI and MOV wrapped media, on PCs and Intel Macs. Blah blah blah.

How does this impact RedCine? Almost all codecs offered by QuickTime panel in RedCine are 8-bit only, many are also chroma sub-sampled, so you are likely plannig to use QuickTime or generating proxies then switch to DPX down the road. Using the CineForm you can directly output high precision masters, in a lightly compressed format (between 5:1 to 10:1), at resolutions up to 4K (and beyond.) Very handy for effects work where proxies will not do, and too many 4K DPX files on disks are painful.

Now both NEO 4K and RedCine are in beta, so there be things that will come up. I have found one RedCine bug that prevents deep pixel codec like CineForm (and others) from producing a 4096 wide export, yet 4104 and 4088 works fine (CineForm codec wants width to be divisable by 8, that is why +/- 8 was used.) I have reported this to the Red team. If you export a 4096 project as 4088, it will scale, so create a project that is 4088x2048 to match you export (no scaling is good.) That is only .2% of frame smaller. :) I'm sure this will be fixed.

We have only tested with the two clips upload, as we sadly don't have a access to Red cameras. So I look forward to others with footage to help us refine our products.

On the we have the NEO 4K for PC, but not yet on the Mac. The Mac codec is licensed up to 2K 4:4:4 at the moment. Prospect 4K is also coming, but NEO is all you need to get started on some compressed 4K composites. Note: the CineForm 4K files will work in Prospect 2K under Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0/CS3.

Here are the betas for :
NEO 4K -- http://www.cineform.com/downloads/NEO4Kv320b142a-071116.zip
Prospect 2K -- http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Prospect2Kv320b142a-071116.zip
CienForm Mac Codec (2K)-- http://www.cineform.com/downloads/CFHDCodec-MacOSv1.4.0.43-071116.zip

If you new to any of these products, they work as a 15-day trial.
 
you are really fast...pretty cool...

how will the workflow be

redcine----direct to cineform, or do you need an intermediate codec?

i mean will redcine output cineform directly or which formats are the best to export
from redcine and then transcode to cineform?
 
We are the intermediate. Well it is a confusing word now, as sometimes we are the acquisition format, or master format, but we are most commonly an online post production format. We are the intermediate between your source Redcode/RedCine and your output: film, HDDVD, etc.
 
Touché'

And thank you for a real real-time
 
"You just got youre ass handend to you on a platter, what do you do?"
"I am going to Redland"
 
Which one is right?
1.neo 4k will do the file conversion of redcode.
2. redcine will render out cineform.
3. redcine exports xxx----neo4k uses xxx as source--- convert to cineform.
 
When Neo 4K is installed you can export directly out of RedCine to CineForm MOV files at up to 4K spatial resolution. If you select a spatial resolution of 2K or greater the resulting CineForm files are 12-bit CineForm 444 (RGB). These files become your new master. Neo also includes importers/exporters for AE.

If you have Prospect 2K installed (with Premiere Pro), you can render out of RedCine into 12-bit CineForm 444 files at up to 2K spatial resolution. Prospect 2K also (beyond Neo) has CineForm's real-time processing engine for for an online workflow using Premiere Pro. When we release Prospect 4K you'll have an online 4K solution using Adobe tools.

These tools represent an alternative to exporting uncompressed DPX files from RedCine as David Newman mentioned above.
 
Tried NEO on my PC with a 2K & 4K conversion - it fails to write frame 0 and then quits?
Scaled the 4K to 4088 as suggested.
???
 
Try 2048x1024 or 1920x1080 first to see whether there are issues with export in general. Help us narrow it down. I was doing 4Kx2k exports on a 2GB core 2 duo laptop (Dell M90.)

Idea! Make sure the keyframes is set to 1. My system first defaulted to 7, and that didn't work.
 
I'm a PC man and believe your work will help many others. What can I do to help. I do have a RED cam with me and was planning on being in San Diego sometime this weekend
 
David Newman said:
Try 2048x1024 or 1920x1080 first to see whether there are issues with export in general. Help us narrow it down. I was doing 4Kx2k exports on a 2GB core 2 duo laptop (Dell M90.)

Idea! Make sure the keyframes is set to 1. My system first defaulted to 7, and that didn't work.
Click to expand...

Hello,

Yes, that worked - did a 1920x1080 export - Keyframe set to 1.
Looks good. Will play some more later.
Thanks
 
It seems to be working for me, but I am curious to see file size and playback performance once it finishes converting at 4088x2048. Is the RedCine to Cineform process multithreaded? I am only getting 50% CPU usage on my dual socket workstation, but Hyperthreading might be skewing that. (Time for an 8 core system)
 
Also, does the lack of a 4K varient of Prospect mean that the 4K resolution is not supported by the CineformRT engine in Premiere. If so, are we supposed to use desktop mode with Cineform as the render codec?

EDITED: It displays the 4K clip in my Prospect2K project, and the image appears, but playback leaves much to be desired.

I tried using AE, but the 4K (4088) file did not work. It only displayed as a white screen. The 2K version worked fine. The 4K fine plays in Qucktime, and by "plays" I mean there is image data. What machine specs will we need to get realtime playback of Cineform4K files? (Presumably at 2K display)
 
Im very excited for this. I assume Neo 4k will be free since its made for Redcine?
 
David N. & David T.,

I'm taking my hat off as a sign of admiration.

You guys enable something which only some time ago would have sounded like highly optimistic wishful thinking. You make it even better; instead of rushing to the markets including customers with lot of capital resources, you make these things possible for indies taking into account most indies are, in fact, out of money.

It's great that Cineform is not run by economists focusing fully on the next quarter of year but instead of engineer oriented people thinking of what happens in the long run!
 
yay!!! David Taylor and David Newman posting wow...

so exciting....

Mike McCarty very interested in your plans for your new system.

David Newman, contact me. I have a lot of RED footage from the Utah shoot, some of which I can use for testing. If I can throw all the R3d clips in a timeline using Cineform 2k, sync sound somehow, do some editing, and do a EDL/XML to a Neo 4k that would be awesome. I have access to a Sony 4K SXRD.... so It would be awesome to be able to show some Macgregor footage at 4K. As far as I know, Zach and Mac have started the edit.

anyone know a magical way to play back 4k via the Sony 4k projector that doesn't involve a QuVis?

mike
behedge@yahoo.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top