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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Nexto - CF backup on the go

PaulClements

PaulClements

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I started writing about this in another thread but thought it was worth bringing to the attention of all. This thing sounds like an ideal companion to RedOne shooters using Compact Flash.

http://www.nextodi.com/en/product/ultra_en.html

  • Copy your CF directly, negating the requirement of a computer
  • Can do a GB in less than 50 seconds!
  • Is compatible with PC & Mac
  • One button backup
  • Verifies your backup (90 seconds per GB)
  • Comes with an extra external battery included - Total backup of about 150GB using both batteries and can be plugged into mains

I've seen a couple of prices but arount the $280 mark for a 120GB setup is about average. It seems you can buy it without a 2.5" harddrive and install one of your choosing. I've found it for about $200 without Harddrive so I guess you can stick a larger HDD in there since it formats it to FAT32 - again ideal for RedOne as I believe that is FAT32 also.
 
Brook, you could always backup to the Nexto with the 2.5" harddrives on location and then when you get back to your editing computer pull the hdd's out and place them into an external RAID to work directly from.

That represents a really quick workflow and only one chance of corrupted info when backing up from CF. With the Nexto's data verification that might not even be very likely.
 
We could supply the client directly with an external RAID holding 1TB (5x200GB PATA HDD's) of information and there would only ever be one backup of the data from CF and that would be verified.
 
PaulClements said:
We could supply the client directly with an external RAID holding 1TB (5x200GB PATA HDD's) of information and there would only ever be one backup of the data from CF and that would be verified.
Click to expand...

With the copying that fast and the low price point, you could have two of these units and just back everything up twice.

Once goes with the client (shipped back via FEDEX after copying) and the other goes to your studio for an archive back up.

David

Great find Paul. Thanks!!
 
Hi Craig

Of the ones I found when looking into them earlier, and just a brief glance at those you posted, the Nexto seemed to have better options and looks to be one of the better made of such devices, though I dare say they are all similar in many ways.

Paul
 
battistella said:
With the copying that fast and the low price point, you could have two of these units and just back everything up twice.

Once goes with the client (shipped back via FEDEX after copying) and the other goes to your studio for an archive back up.

David

Great find Paul. Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Too true David. I can see a very orderly inventory of CF cards might be required :)
 
PaulClements said:
Too true David. I can see a very orderly inventory of CF cards might be required :)
Click to expand...

This is what I am planning. I still haven't heard if it is possible to copy from the CF card to the RED DRIVE (it is after all a 320 RAID storage system right on the back of your camera)

WORKFLOW WISHLIST. Three RED DRIVES and about 10-20 CF cards.

1. Shoot CF . Keep CF. Copy to RED DRIVE as back-up.

2. Shoot CF. Copy to RED DRIVE A, COPY to RED DRIVE B.

3. Shoot to RED DRIVE C for those really long interviews, but audio only option would be good for those too.

If you shot 2K in this scenario you could have all of the benefits of tape and tapeless (WITHOUT A LAPTOP). I can not stress how much I believe that copying from CF to RED DRIVE will truly make RED even more revolutionary because it keeps you inside the system.

I look forward to when the client is showing up with their own RED DRIVES.

David



David
 
PaulClements said:
Hi Craig

Of the ones I found when looking into them earlier, and just a brief glance at those you posted, the Nexto seemed to have better options and looks to be one of the better made of such devices, though I dare say they are all similar in many ways.

Paul
Click to expand...

I agree, and it seems the Nexto has a bigger drive than many of the others. I have to say though, the thought of shooting to cards and off-loading quickly to such a device is fantastic. Wouldn't it be nice if there was a Red manufactured CF device as Battistella suggested, perhaps an adapter of some kind that would let you transfer to the red-drive.

It could be the best of both worlds, carry both in your kit, use the cards to shoot on and then transfer quickly to the red-drive attached to the back of the camera for field backup and field archiving. Carry two cards, shoot one, quickly eject it and insert to the red-drive, as it off-loads you begin to use the second card.

Better yet, no ejection of the card. Using cleverly designed Red software transfer internally from the card to the drive. Either way you aren't recording to the mechanical drives while under run and gun or extreme conditions and using it only for field back-up while handily attached to your rig.
 
battistella said:
This is what I am planning. I still haven't heard if it is possible to copy from the CF card to the RED DRIVE (it is after all a 320 RAID storage system right on the back of your camera)
Click to expand...

Right now, due to drive speeds It's RAID 0 only - so no protection there.

Only the REDRAM can be switched to RAID 1 as it houses two solid state drives.
 
battistella said:
This is what I am planning. I still haven't heard if it is possible to copy from the CF card to the RED DRIVE (it is after all a 320 RAID storage system right on the back of your camera)

WORKFLOW WISHLIST. Three RED DRIVES and about 10-20 CF cards.

1. Shoot CF . Keep CF. Copy to RED DRIVE as back-up.

2. Shoot CF. Copy to RED DRIVE A, COPY to RED DRIVE B.

3. Shoot to RED DRIVE C for those really long interviews, but audio only option would be good for those too.

If you shot 2K in this scenario you could have all of the benefits of tape and tapeless (WITHOUT A LAPTOP). I can not stress how much I believe that copying from CF to RED DRIVE will truly make RED even more revolutionary because it keeps you inside the system.

I look forward to when the client is showing up with their own RED DRIVES.

David
Click to expand...

This solution sounds ok, but unless you are handing the Red Drive over to the client you are going to be doing a second lot of backup from them to a RAID or external Harddrive. With the Nexto it ought to be possible to pull the 2.5" harddrive and hand that directly to the client.

There don't seem to be too many 200GB PATA drives kicking about but they are there. However, there are lots of low cost 160Gb drives. From a brief look I found this Seagate one:

http://www.vlp.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1102

At $89.00 that represenets $0.56 per GB. Compared to a RedDrives $2.81 per GB. (Half the space at a tenth of the cost)

If I use CF and the Nexto, which I'm thinking is more and more likely I'll give the client the option of having the drive(s) delivered in one of those small USB enclosures that cost about $10 or build them an entire RAID from the disks directly.

As long as care is taken to protect the disks such as storing them in a hard case (ala Peli or Storm) and putting them inside water and static proof bags you shouldn't go wrong.

I'll probably have 4 Nexto's on set and backup two lots from each CF. Giving me 320GB with a backup. (If swapping the drives over is easy one could probably get away with just 2).

I'd also have a reserve of 2.5" disks that I could swap over in a controlled environment either at the end of the day ready for the next day, or if a problem arises, and we need another drive to backup to, do it on set - Perhaps an ideal reason for having one of those popup rooms OffHollywood posted about a while ago.
 
I like where this is going.
Hopefully RED will buy out some of this simple tech an put steroids in it.
 
PaulClements said:
This solution sounds ok, but unless you are handing the Red Drive over to the client you are going to be doing a second lot of backup from them to a RAID or external Harddrive.
Click to expand...

Paul,

This workflow is one I would use for remote documentary shoots or "in house production".

I really believe that the multiple CF cards is going to be the best client take away. These can be copied/backed up (as the client wishes) and then shipped back or purchased as an archive. I hope CF cards have a decent to long shelf life. AS solid state they should be as good or better than Metal Particle oxide tape.

David
 
Hi David,

Horses for courses I suppose. Everyone will have their favourite way of working.

Using off the shelf harddrives for backup does make it significantly cheaper and something like Nexto would appear to make it quicker than backing up CF to a RedDrive, even in remote documentary shoots.

If for example on an expidition for a week on a docu you managed to use up 10 RedDrives, that amounts to $9000. By comparison 20 160GB 2.5" drives could be bought for $1780 - plus one Nexto and that would be $1980 for 33 hours of 4K Footage for a system that doesn't require a laptop to transfer the data. Or you could buy 20 Nexto's and skip having to swap drives in the field for a total of $5780. Furthermore when you get home you don't have any further work backing up, just stick them in a RAID and off you go.

Like I say though, everyone will find ways they prefer working and I'm sure new technologies will allow us to work even more efficiently in the future.

Paul
 
Good thread! Some well thought out BU solutions...

A thought: Backups are a fact of life no matter what the genre of production. RED seems to have been thorough in planning the rest of the camera system, and Stuart English (RED Workflow Wizard) surely has some well thought out backup workflow recommendations. With the shipping of the first cameras coming soon, it wouldn't surprise me to have in-depth recommended acquisition, backup, and post workflow options defined by RED by the time the cameras ship. My guess is that RED's backup recommendations will be thorough, have many options, and may even surprise many of us - after all, they've already been surprising us with good workflow solutions and design considerations for about 20 months of development on the RED One camera system.

IMO there are some exciting times ahead... :whistling: :wink:

No...I don't have any "insider" knowledge, just guessing...
 
Stuart thinks to himself

"Gee, thanks Gibby like making a 4K camera isn't enough, I have to come up with the recommended delivery workflow plans for ya!"

:)
 
PaulClements said:
Stuart thinks to himself

"Gee, thanks Gibby like making a 4K camera isn't enough, I have to come up with the recommended delivery workflow plans for ya!"

:)
Click to expand...

LOL...could be!

Stuart is a very thorough chap. My guess is that he'll have some very cool recommendations for BU and everything else...
 
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