Red and Lucasfilm?

[Dominic Jones]

4K?! Oh my god that is the most horrible, horrible, horrible pun ever...

I love it!

 

[Michael Struthers]

Funny, I was at an event last night in SF and George was scheduled to show up. Unfortunately he didn't, but I was going to offer him the use of my Red One and see what he had to say...

It's not about the tech for Spielberg, it's about history and he is a student of Hollywood history and film. And a professor as well.

Lucas has always been a "screw you Hollywood" guy so of course he's going to be adopting different technology given the chance. His f900 Star Wars flick didn't look so hot though....cameras than do 4k such as Red will give him a chance to show the world.

 

[Billy Summers]

Who's actually SHOOTING this film? Janusz Kaminski (Speilberg's DP). And he is F'ing amazing! I know he also LOVES grain. When shooting Munich, he opted for Kodak Vision as opposed to Vision2 because the Vision2 has less grain and looks too clean (too much like HD?)

I do miss the FEEL of film, when watching HD productions, although some shows really pull HD off well(Superman Returns, Flyboy's, Battlestar Gallactica, Sleeper Cell etc.).

All said and done I'm more than willing to bet they're shooting 35mm...

 

[jeffry alan]

His f900 Star Wars flick didn't look so hot though....cameras than do 4k such as Red will give him a chance to show the world.

Did you see Star Wars III on a digtal projector? If you had you wouldn't have said that. There were only two DLP projectors in the Bay Area when the last Star Wars opened (the one in Emeryville next to Pixar where they do test screenings, and one at the Metreon), and the difference in detail and color was astounding compared to film. The three fully digital productions I saw there -Finding Nemo, Incredibles, and Star Wars III- were so different that I would bring people in just to see the digital experience (especially Finding Nemo) and they were always blown away.

Pixar had a lot of problems taking Nemo to film because the particles in the water came out cloudy, and they had to actually downgrade the image before it was transferred!
That said, taking 4k to film and retaining info is going to be a real challenge. Something to think about since universal adopting of 4k digital projectors is a long way off.

J*

 

[Michael Struthers]

You are right, I didn't catch it digitally projected. It should have looked better than what I saw.

I think going forward adding grain and warmth to the HD hyperclean images will be the post-wizard's task. I personally like grain, but maybe someone 15 or 16 doesn't care, so all the comic movies will be shot in ultra HD and the "human" factor stories in 35mm or 65mm.

 

[Greg Lowry]

With all due respect, Greg, I think its ill-informed to suggest that the Oscar winning editor, Michael Kahn, cut all of Spielberg's pictures.

Spielberg's monster hit, E.T, was NOT cut by Michael Kahn. It was actually cut by another Oscar nominated editor, Carol Littleton (Manchurian Candidate).

BTW, I think Lucas can conveniently add a RedOne to his workflow if he feels the need for it. Spielberg will understand.

And Verna Fields cut Sugarland Express and Jaws. Michael Kahn has been Spielberg's editor almost exclusively since Close Encounters -- nearly 30 years. Is that precise enough for you?

 

[CVB]

Did you see Star Wars III on a digtal projector? If you had you wouldn't have said that. There were only two DLP projectors in the Bay Area when the last Star Wars opened (the one in Emeryville next to Pixar where they do test screenings, and one at the Metreon), and the difference in detail and color was astounding compared to film. The three fully digital productions I saw there -Finding Nemo, Incredibles, and Star Wars III- were so different that I would bring people in just to see the digital experience (especially Finding Nemo) and they were always blown away.

Pixar had a lot of problems taking Nemo to film because the particles in the water came out cloudy, and they had to actually downgrade the image before it was transferred!
That said, taking 4k to film and retaining info is going to be a real challenge. Something to think about since universal adopting of 4k digital projectors is a long way off.

J*

Jeffry... I saw starwars in digital at a San Jose cinema.. you're right, its a totally different experience. Especially after the 500th time the movie is played it still looks good, not all scratchy.

 

[Antoine Fabi]

I think Digital is better than film.

I am a musician.
A few years ago, what i heard from digital recording was crappy sounding to my ears. CRAPPY, period.

But today, with superb analog to digital converters and high sampling rates and good bit depth, digital can sound very warm, natural.

The good thing about digital (with sufficient bit depth and sampling) is that you can do almost anything.

Unscompressed digital ( or visually lossless compression) and sufficient bit depth IS THE SAME AS ANALOG...without any degradation from copies etc...
With PURE digital, the image "feeling" or "warmth" or "beauty" will come from the sensor and from the post work.
That's what i call image or sound "signature".

WE are the limiting factor.

 

[jeffry alan]

Jeffry... I saw starwars in digital at a San Jose cinema.. you're right, its a totally different experience. Especially after the 500th time the movie is played it still looks good, not all scratchy.

Yeah, I used to sneak all my friends in there to see Nemo on the DLP (it was ok, I was Facilities Manager there!) just so they could experience the difference.

There was a consortium of People With Cash (PWC) that were trying to buy a large quantity of DLP's or the latest equivalent and get them integrated into theaters in America to facilitate the transition to digital. I think Mark Cuban (owner of the Dallas Mavericks and Landmark Theaters- another Bajillionaire) was talking about going completely digital in all his theaters.

But until that transition happens, the full impact of RED's 4k will be limited to the HD channels and DVD productions, since transfer to film will be like downconverting.

J*

 

[Graeme Nattress]

"WE are the limiting factor." - Exactly.

However, with Digital Cinema, the sensor is digital, whereas with digital audio, the microphone is still very analogue, making analogy not quite there.

However, your last line is spot on correct. The technology is so superb now, that the humans that operate it are beginning to be the real last frontier in quality.

Graeme

 

[Mardi_Gras]

And Verna Fields cut Sugarland Express and Jaws. Michael Kahn has been Spielberg's editor almost exclusively since Close Encounters -- nearly 30 years. Is that precise enough for you?

You're not disputing anything I said or didn't say, so I don't understand the need for the rather rude tone. I corrected an erronous blanket statement that you posted. You should have simply accepted your mistake and moved on.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Lucas has always been a "screw you Hollywood" guy so of course he's going to be adopting different technology given the chance. His f900 Star Wars flick didn't look so hot though....cameras than do 4k such as Red will give him a chance to show the world.

Yeah, I didn't thnk any of SW I thru III looked all that great... I think they would have been much better off to shoot them with film and use all the old VFX approaches and methods used in the original trilogy. That would have been really cool, IMO. OTOH, this may have drastically changed the costs of these films, not sure if it would have mad much difference in the end though.

As for Episodes II and III, I'm not sure if it mattered all that much what they were shot with. Probably could have had just about the same results using a couple HVX200s and/or XLH1s. So much of what was on screen was CGI, we were mostly watching a cartoon with some live actor elements. Perhaps that's somewhat of a slam against SWII/III, but one has to wonder after viewing scenes where the only real-life element in an entire shot is an actor's face. ...And even that is digitally enhanced.

 

[Steve Gibby]

I've been posting for over a year now this thought:

"The biggest challenge for any RED One user is for them to have an open enough attitude and broad enough skill sets to achieve the maximum potential that RED One's technology enables"

That translates quite nicely into "WE are the limiting factor"

 

[Isaac Brody]

That translates quite nicely into "WE are the limiting factor"

I retranslate that to: The honeymoon's over.

No more excuses on why you can't complete your brilliant script that's been sitting in the bottom drawer. What's it called, Rocky 5000?

 

[Antoine Fabi]

I feel like i'd found a 150K Steinway Grand piano for for 17.5 K

..OK now, can you play that concert ? ...Oh man... hee hee...

 

[Jaime Vallés]

Yeah, I didn't thnk any of SW I thru III looked all that great... I think they would have been much better off to shoot them with film and use all the old VFX approaches and methods used in the original trilogy.

Well, Episode I was shot on film, and in my opinion I felt that the all-digital episodes II and III looked better (in a digital projection at the Zigfeld Theater in NYC).

And, yes, I fully agree that from now on there can be no more excuses. WE are the limiting factor, indeed.

BTW- Nice poster, acehole!

 

[Vincent Rice]

Workflow, workflow, workflow. Spielberg likes to work very fast and he can do that because his workflow is tried, tested, and comfortable for everyone concerned. Its moot whether the workflow would actually be faster using Red; its unproven as far as SS is concerned.

Now Lucas is is a different kettle of fish completely! I've no doubt he knows all about Red.

 

[Stephen Webb]

Have to disagree, Eps 2&3 looked awful regardless of whether they were shown Digitally or Film. Nothing to do with the presentation format, they were badly lit, badly shot and looked horribly flat. The multiple composition layers were too obvious at times as well and the whole thing looked like one big technically compiled mess.

 

[Stephen Williams]

Have to disagree, Eps 2&3 looked awful regardless of whether they were shown Digitally or Film. Nothing to do with the presentation format, they were badly lit, badly shot and looked horribly flat. The multiple composition layers were too obvious at times as well and the whole thing looked like one big technically compiled mess.

Hi Stephen,

I have to agree, flat lighting is flat lighting regardless of capture medium.

Stephen

 

[Sanjin Jukic]

Guys, about Lucas, Spielberg and digital acquisition the thing is very simple.

Lucas is totally digital guy from acquisition to the post/VFX. As we all know he started Pixar Animation Studio (100% digital technology) than sold it to Steve Jobs because he was short with money to pay a settlement to the ex-wife. Than he started Lucasfilm Studio (100% digital technology) and StarWars serial (100% digital technology). His vision is more dependent from VFX than from shooting a real world and this is a reason that he went digital acquisition with the first Sony HD CineAlta cameras.

Spielberg is a bit different and he is surrounded with people who still trust in old technologies like 35mm film acquisition (Janus Kaminski) or editing film with Moviola or KEM flatbed film cutting table machines (Michael Kahn). Also Spielberg is doing a lot of VFX (to mention some of them in movies like E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, Jurassic Park, A.I. Artificial Intelligence, The Terminal, War of the Worlds). "Spielberg has worked with George Lucas' digital special effects house Industrial Light and Magic (ILM) on all his films except The Terminal, which used effects by Digital Domain."(Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Spielberg). That means Steven Spielberg is a sort of digital guy too. If he would also have "digital cinema guys" as collaborators for movie acquisition and editing he would naturally switch to digital and be 100% there. But who knows one day when movies done with RED ONE digital cinema camera and 4K workflow start to get awards maybe even Oscars, the guys like Spielberg will switch to digital cinema for sure. He likes very much awards like every human.