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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

AI or AIS?

S

Shaheryar Ahmed

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Hey everybody. I am an avid reader of this forum. I am buying Nikkor lenses as I have the Nikon D7100 but I am also thinking about completing a set which can be used in the future. The money I have right now only allows me to go Nikon route because of my camera. Now I am confused between Ai and Ais. I know this for a fact that few lenses very designed differently when they made the Ais version like the 28mm f2.8 Ais version is better as it has 8 elements in 8 groups while the AI has 7 in 7 groups. But these examples are few. The plus point to AI is that they are cheap and have longer focus throws (140-200 degrees). Optically they are very similar but price point wise Ai is cheaper. Also I saw a pre Ai 50mm f2. I know that its useless for me as it won't mount my nikon camera but when I focused the focus barrel moves. Now I am looking at a few AI lenses and see that is the case with some of them (only in pictures). I don't know if all of them do that. Is that a problem? Which lenses do you have and does the focus barrel move and how do you cope with it provided you are using a follow focus? Which lenses to get: AI or AIS? Please help me out. Thanking you guys in advance.
 
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With some older Nikon lenses, the iris ( aperture ) ring overhangs the flange face. The mount which suited the older lenses has the same profile of lugs and spring-loaded locking pin. However the shoulder on the outer diameter of the older mounts ( Nikon FM2 vintage ) was very slightly narrower and 1mm deeper front to rear than on later mounts. This overhang of the iris ring fouls some of the newer mounts, tends to lock the iris ring and sometimes forces the lens off flange. There's two solutions. One is to machine off the overhang from the iris ring. Some people over the years have proudly proclaimed their surgical efforts with hacksaw blades, files and Dremels. I strongly recommend against owner-operator measures like this. For starters, one slip or wrong move and the rear element of the lens in a goner. Bits of metal and dust will get in and make things grubby and gritty. The other is to take the newer mount ring off, mount it on a lathe and skim the shoulder back from 0.7mm to 1.7mm to provide the clearance and take a merest whisker off the outer diameter of the shoulder. People in the lens business who post here are better to be heeded than myself who knows just enough to be a danger to himself. Two who come to mind are Matthew Duclos and the Optitek man. I understand his Nikon mount for the RED camera family has correct clearance for the older lenses.
 
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You've pretty much summed up the differences. A handful have new designs, a few add CRC, several move from 7 to 9 aperture blades, many have shorter focus throws, and AI tend to be cheaper. Those are the only issues you have to consider.

http://www.photosynthesis.co.nz/nikon/specs.html is an excellent resource for checking which lenses are available in which versions and which have which changes.
 
Lee but the main issue is focus barrel rotation. Does that bother? Does it happen on other vintage prime still lenses like Contax Zeiss, Leica R or Minolta etc. Is it a problem when focus with a FF unit?
 
Shaheryar Ahmed said:
Lee but the main issue is focus barrel rotation. Does that bother? Does it happen on other vintage prime still lenses like Contax Zeiss, Leica R or Minolta etc. Is it a problem when focus with a FF unit?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't read your question closely enough.

All of those lines do have some lenses with telescoping/moving focus rings, usually the oldest and simplest and the macros. A few that I know do not are Nikon AI-s 28/2.8, 50/1.2, 85/1.4, 105/1.8*, 135/2, 180/2.8*, and 200/4 Macro, Leica 180/2 & 180/3.4, Voightlander SL 40/2 & 180/4*.

*these move very slightly, but not enough to run off your follow focus.
 
Patrick I am more inclined going towards the vintage route. A friend of mine has a Rokinon 85 1.4 and I must say that it is a nice lens but I don't want that look. Plus the 35 is a bit expensive for me as I also do not need such a fast lens on that focal length. I also know it would not hurt to have one but I am just going more towards an organic vintage look with less contrast but equal sharpness.
 
Anybody used a Nikon Ai or any lens that had its focus barrel move so much that it was unusable with a FF?
 
Focus barrel movement has never been an issue with me for AI-S lenses - the 120º rotation on a relatively small diameter barrel is a much bigger obstacle to elaborate follow focus work (although it's still workable for most situations). I've only used a couple AI lenses before (the 28/2.0 and the 200/4 macro) and neither of them had focus barrel movement issues, but both of them seemed to render things warmer than the AI-S lenses. I'm pretty sure there was a change in coatings between the two series, so mixed sets are probably not a great idea if you care about matching footage.
 
I am going with the AI 28 f2, 35 f2 and 50 f1.4. Like Alan said that his experience with 28 Ai f2 was good and the focus barrel was no issue. What about others and your experiences?
 
We use AI due to longer focus throw.

Id be interested to know about the later coatings on lenses to see if these are thought to be an improvement or now.

FYI Eastern Enterprises have some excelent Nikon to Cinema PL conversions. The work is amongst the best I have seen and certainly on par with other top manufacturers.
 
Dave what lenses do you have and what do you have to say about focus barrel movement and using these AI lenses with follow focus?
 
f2.8 20mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 100mm macro, 105mm 180mm, All AI.

Zooms, 17 35, 28 70, 80 200mm non extending lens, Manual iris.

We use with an Optitek mount.

I didn't know of the focus barrel concern mentioned in the thread, and I will check. We do use a Chroziel manual FF and also RT Motion unit. The RTMotion is very good, you can use a reversing gear with the lenses if you want to or use a unit with a reversing gear box. You need a very good manual unit as the focus throw is very short so the better unit the the better the result.

A couple of lenses breathe much more than others 24m for instance.

Initial we purchased them for Timelapse work on 5D2's but find them very useful on Epic as they have a different look from our Canon FD's and Leica R's.

We don't like the focus rotation but the glass is generaly good. We did find we would have to carefully match coatings of lenses to get a good pair for 3D work etc.

We also use nikon vertualy all the time underwater the 17 55 G, and 80 180 macro zoom suplimented by the Tokina 11 16mm and 10 17mm lenses.

Id also Reccomend Doug Underdahl's mount as well as the excelent Optitek.
 
Thanks Dave for your detailed reply. If you have been happily using a FF with these lenses then you dont have the focus barrel issue which means I am also in the clear.
 
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Shaheryar Ahmed said:
I am going with the AI 28 f2, 35 f2 and 50 f1.4. Like Alan said that his experience with 28 Ai f2 was good and the focus barrel was no issue. What about others and your experiences?
Click to expand...

I´d recommend the 28 f2.8, and the 35 F1.4 instead, 50 f1.4 is great. There also is a 55 f1.2 which performs excellent. I´ll second the focus barrel movement of the 55 f2.8 macro, which makes it problematic with a FF. Focus barrel movement tends to increase with longer focal length but works well with all lenses we tried so far. The AI /AIS Nikkor lenses aren´t as crisp as modern glass but they perform very well and add a vintage character. I also like their flare characteristics. Have fun! Cheers, Ulf
 
I am now going for these focal lengths: 24 f2.8 35 f2 50f1.4 and 105 f4 macro. All of them AI. Ulf from what I have heard about 35 f1.4 is that it is soft wide open and sharp at 2 or 2.8. Plus the price difference is too much for me. And I dont need such a fast lens on that focal length.
 
I can hand focus a macro. Have done that before with good results.
 
Hi Shaheryar, yes the 35 f1.4 is loaded with coma and practically unusable wide open unless you go for a dreamy effect. It performs extremely well once stopped down. The 35 f 2.0 is prone to ghost/flare, try to get hands on both and make your decision. The newer 28 f2.8 is often underrated, it is slow but a very good lens with next to no distortion. BTW, I´ll also recommend the optitek mount for Nikon AI and AIs.
All Nikkors telescope in their overall length, to connect them to a mattebox we use a Nikon sunshade HN-31 which has a cylindrical outer shape and can be easily adapted. You´ll need step up rings (most Nikkor are 52mm filter thread) to the 77mm diameter of the sunshade.

Cheers, Ulf
 
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