Adobe Announces native Dragon support in Premiere Pro

[jake blackstone]

Jake,

I'm (genuinely) curious about one thing. I remember you talking about the Resolve feature, forgot the name, where you can remotely grade with a client, and you stood by the quality of he results, dismissing the need for high end, 10 bit displays. So, what gives? Not defending Speedgrade, for the life of me I cannot stomach the interface of that thing, but is there a double standard at play here? I do have 10 bit displays, and been on sessions with Dolby monitors and 4K DCP compliant projectors, but at the end of the day, EVERYBODY I know checks their work on a regular 8 bit (6 bit usually) home TV/computer monitor, to make sure all those intricate, beautiful and subtle nuances from the 10 bit displays do not translate into something unexpected as they play on the lowest common denominators, where 90% of all things will be watched.

Rudi.
Yes, I remote grade with my clients around the world on almost dally basis. All my clients are using 10 bit monitors. Said that, when did I ever said, that 8 bit for the grading monitor is fine?
And who is "EVERYBODY you know checks their work on a regular 8 bit (6 bit usually) home TV/computer monitor"? I think you're confusing the idea, that sound guys do the final stereo mix check on tiny speakers. NOBODY I know know "checks their work on a regular 8 bit (6 bit usually) home TV/computer monitor". NEVER!
So, no double standard here.

 

[Phil Holland]

Rudi.
Yes, I remote grade with my clients around the world on almost dally basis. All my clients are using 10 bit monitors. Said that, when did I ever said, that 8 bit for the grading monitor is fine?
And who is "EVERYBODY you know checks their work on a regular 8 bit (6 bit usually) home TV/computer monitor"? I think you're confusing the idea, that sound guys do the final stereo mix check on tiny speakers. NOBODY I know know "checks their work on a regular 8 bit (6 bit usually) home TV/computer monitor". NEVER!
So, no double standard here.

I'll play devils advocate here. I know "several" folks who export over to things like iPads to see a quick review. I have a large calibrated panel here that I occasionally display on. I wouldn't use it to discern actual color, but if that's your intended delivery I could see why it's useful.

Also, dailies and even color rushes in a lot of places get seen on not exactly ideal displays.

For mission critical work I wouldn't recommend it though. Properly calibrated and quality displays pretty much are ideal.

 

[jake blackstone]

I'll play devils advocate here. I know "several" folks who export over to things like iPads to see a quick review. I have a large calibrated panel here that I occasionally display on. I wouldn't use it to discern actual color, but if that's your intended delivery I could see why it's useful.

Also, dailies and even color rushes in a lot of places get seen on not exactly ideal displays.

For mission critical work I wouldn't recommend it though. Properly calibrated and quality displays pretty much are ideal.

So, where is the "devils advocate" part?
You're saying exactly the same thing as I do
Using iPads, iPhones, Androids etc to review dailies is fine. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. The subject, that Rudi questions is the necessity of 10 bit monitoring for final color grading, as SG is positioned to be used for.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

It says 1.5 minutes, not $1.5. Also, editing isn't my primary activity. Most of the time I'm on the road doing DIT, AC, 2nd AC, Sound Guy or whatever else I'm needed for. Hopefully it's becoming clearer why I don't want to shell out the extra bucks. It would end up costing my clients way more than a buck o' five

Fair enough. Sorry, $2.50 per work-day. And as Alec pointed out, it's not like Creative Suite was free before. $1,000 every 24 months works out to about $500 per year. So you're spending an extra $100 per year and best of all you can spread that cost out and it's better for taxes. But even then at worst it's an extra $100 / 48 weeks / 5 days = $0.41 per day vs the old buy and upgrade approach (excluding the up-front cost of buying Creative Suite if you don't have it already).

Also it offers more flexibility in that you could spend $120 for 2 months if you had a freelancer helping you out instead of having to buy a whole 'nother suite. You can't possibly convince me something that costs $2.50 a day but can handle pretty much an entire production (Editing, Sound, Script Writing, Compositing and Grading) isn't worth $2.50 per day.

 

[Stephen Franchek]

I'm still hoping Adobe brings Dragon support to CS6. I just bought that ish about 5 months ago. With the amount of field work I've been doing lately, I'd be throwing money out the window paying for Creative Cloud. Unless of course I can cancel the membership or put it on hold as needed, in which I'd be throwing time out the window. I can definitely see the benefits, but it's just not the right product for me

Fair enough. Sorry, $2.50 per work-day. And as Alec pointed out, it's not like Creative Suite was free before. $1,000 every 24 months works out to about $500 per year. So you're spending an extra $100 per year and best of all you can spread that cost out and it's better for taxes. But even then at worst it's an extra $100 / 48 weeks / 5 days = $0.41 per day vs the old buy and upgrade approach (excluding the up-front cost of buying Creative Suite if you don't have it already).

Also it offers more flexibility in that you could spend $120 for 2 months if you had a freelancer helping you out instead of having to buy a whole 'nother suite. You can't possibly convince me something that costs $2.50 a day but can handle pretty much an entire production (Editing, Sound, Script Writing, Compositing and Grading) isn't worth $2.50 per day.

 

[David McGavran]

Hi All,

Just to be clear. We are not adding new features to CS6. CC is the future of Premiere Pro and the other Adobe apps. We are supporting CS 6 but not adding new features. We added some fixes in 6.0.4 and 6.0.5. I know you guys love to go back and forth on the subscription model stuff and thats fine. The important message on this thread is that the Adobe Video team is consistently releasing amazing new features for our customers. We are working more closely than ever with our friends at Red. We just announced Dragon support. We are working with Red on a ton of cool stuff that we hope to share with you soon. If you guys happen to be at IBC. Come by the super meet and we can say hi. I will be watching the fun and awesome Al Mooney.

To answer a few thoughts in this thread:

Yes members of our teams have been involved in Productions.
There are at least 4 or 5 members of the Premiere Pro team answering questions on this board (Adobe Workflows) so if you have questions go there
We are simply a really dedicated team trying to make the best video editor in the world.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Phil Holland]

Thanks David. Couldn't make IBC due to LA obligations, but looking forward to what's coming.

 

[Alec Morris]

Yeah thanks for posting David. It's good to know you guys are listening. I'm really happy with CC so far.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

The subject, that Rudi questions is the necessity of 10 bit monitoring for final color grading, as SG is positioned to be used for.

Jake,

I don't exactly question the necessity of 10 bit displays, I understand perfectly well the role they play in a professional color correction environment. And though I grade with two 10 bit displays, since 90% of my work is always meant for TV or internet display, the first thing I do once I lock my grade is either make a low bandwidth 720i and/or burn a BD, to mimic either of those environments and see what I got. Of course, there are always tones and hues that disappear when put through this filter, and every now and then, I may even decide to tweak my grade given that once those nuanced colors are gone, I am left with an image that has lost some of of the feel I had originally achieved. So in the end, the grade has to pass the crappy, 6-8 bit display test. Now, this is not something I came up with on my own. I learned it after sitting in on a few sessions at places like Company 3, where they insisted we took a look at what it would look like "in the real world" given that our product was meant for TV distribution. I have seen other colorists do that, and in fact, some of them run an LCD TV and a 20" monitor behind their Dolby monitors, and whenever they make certain decisions, they check the lowest common denominator to see how much of the intended look will translate there. This is what I have seen, though you have not, and as you are the professional here, I will defer to you. But I've seen it done. Frequently. By professionals.

All that said, yes, no color app can call itself professional if it does not allow 10 bit monitoring.

 

[Tehben Dean]

I too went back and forth about the subscription concept but then thought of it this way. If it means Adobe can release amazing new features whenever they are ready instead of bunching stuff up for a yearly version update... that would be cool right

 

[jake blackstone]

Jake,

I have seen other colorists do that, and in fact, some of them run an LCD TV and a 20" monitor behind their Dolby monitors, and whenever they make certain decisions, they check the lowest common denominator to see how much of the intended look will translate there. This is what I have seen, though you have not, and as you are the professional here, I will defer to you. But I've seen it done. Frequently. By professionals.

Running more than one master grading monitor during the session is a recipe for disaster. That is why many high end color grading systems, like Baselight or FilmMaster don't even have an image display on their GUI. You absolutely do not want to confuse your clients and to start them questioning any color decisions, because no two monitors are the same, especially having crappy monitor along side with properly calibrated 10 bit professional display. That is why I hope Resolve can make this type of operation usable, as now it is not.

 

[Les Dittert]

The videos mention the warp stabilizer is 8 times faster in AE. Is this also the case for PP ?

I hope they fixed the UI lockup when you throw 6 stabilizers onto the timeline at the same time.

 

[Andy White]

I too went back and forth about the subscription concept but then thought of it this way. If it means Adobe can release amazing new features whenever they are ready instead of bunching stuff up for a yearly version update... that would be cool right

The subs concept is over (in terms of discussions etc) and Adobe are happy with what they've done. The issue I have with it is that (in certain CC apps) you can only save/open in CC... so essentially, your files aren't your own (as you can't open if you're not using CC).

However... in terms of price, features and updates, the new CC model is better than waiting for the old update cycle... so you win some and loose some

CC would be ideal if it was possible to save your files in an older compatible format (like Photoshop) - that would, I think, remove the last issue people have. So, if you opt out of CC, you could save your files in a legacy format that would work with your old Adobe CS apps (albeit with any new CC aspects removed).

Anyway, the CC model being first for Dragon is cool

 

[David McGavran]

The videos mention the warp stabilizer is 8 times faster in AE. Is this also the case for PP ?

I hope they fixed the UI lockup when you throw 6 stabilizers onto the timeline at the same time.

The warp stabilizer is also significantly faster in Premiere Pro as well.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Julien Deka]

Looking forward to check the new SG PPro workflow - this is the stuff I was waiting for to be able to use SG. Next, very important, SG will need to be integrated in AE at some point.

You cut in Premiere, go to grad in SG, on FX layers. You go back to PPro for few tweaks and when you open this project in AE, it now has the grad as a separate layer on top of the footage. So when you composite your CG elements (or plates) above the footage, but below the grad layer, they end up in the same grad, which helps to glue all the elements together.

I think we're pretty close to such a workflow, and I hope it's heading in that direction.

Keep up the good work

Julien

 

[Roberto Lequeux]

I too went back and forth about the subscription concept but then thought of it this way. If it means Adobe can release amazing new features whenever they are ready instead of bunching stuff up for a yearly version update... that would be cool right

That is close to the way I feel. Amount of improvement should be proportional to the money payed, and the shorter update cycle just makes things more fluid -- which if done right it is only a positive. I love Adobe, so I trust they will do right by it, and look forward to when my trust can feel validated by precedent.

Other popular systems are great too, we'll have to wait and see how awake they really are... Gotta love Adobe being tuned into the heart beat of RED cause they've been at that for ever.

 

[Yuval Shrem]

Well, it's all great and wonderful, but I'd like to know, if Adobe had addressed 10 bit monitoring of Speedgrade on a Mac. Sadly, grading, while looking at 8 bit output for mission critical color is a non starter and for me, personally this is the biggest single reason why I still reluctant to invest my time to learn it.

Or you can get a Windows machine...

 

[jake blackstone]

Or you can get a Windows machine...

Or I could continue to use Resolve

 

[Phil Holland]

Or I could continue to use Resolve

Or you could do both!

 

[Rudi Herbert]

so there is 10 bit output support for SG in Windows?