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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Scarlet Dragon?

Phil, I thought that was just something they were going to *try* to do, but it wasn't set in stone... Also, does it apply to Scarlet Dragon or just Epic Dragon?

I'd be pumped if Dragon Scarlet could have "6k" 2.4:1 (6144x2560 = ~16mp) as an option instead of 5k 1.9:1 (5120x2700 = ~14mp)... I was hoping they would do something like this with MX, but apparently they can't (or won't)... If not "6k" than "5.7k" or whatever is ~14mp at 2.4:1. At 60fps no less!

Edit: Also, I think the better lowlight is a bit of a misnomer. Yes, it has clean ISO2000, but if the sensor is underexposed, then you're still going to be boosting a void signal (which will be introducing noise). The thing is you're still going to need a certain level of light in order to capture a non-void signal and that level may be exactly the same as MX. Remember, ISO just being metadata also means specs like "Clean ISO2000" is somewhat moot (or at least not as impressive as it would be on a baked codec)... Know what I mean?
 
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Mike P. said:
Phil, I thought that was just something they were going to *try* to do, but it wasn't set in stone... Also, does it apply to Scarlet Dragon or just Epic Dragon?

I'd be pumped if Dragon Scarlet could have "6k" 2.4:1 (6144x2560 = ~16mp) as an option instead of 5k 1.9:1 (5120x2700 = ~14mp)... I was hoping they would do something like this with MX, but apparently they can't (or won't)... If not "6k" than "5.7k" or whatever is ~14mp at 2.4:1. At 60fps no less!
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Nope nope nope.

Scarlet Dragon's max frame size is 5K, which is why the graphic says "Scarlet Dragon 5K Full" on the 5K image. As of today there is nothing past 5K resolution on the Scarlet Dragon. However, 5K is indeed essentially an S35 frame and provides a lovely mathematically debayer/scaling/down sampled 4K image, which is a very good thing.
 
Phil Holland wrote:
Scarlet Dragon: price = $9,500.00, availability = TBA
Upgrade the Scarlet-X to Scarlet Dragon for $9500.00
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[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]'
[/FONT]Doesn't sounds like a good deal to upgrade to the Scarlet Dragon, if you can buy a 2nd one for the same price.

 
Ooops... typo! Off the shelf Scarlet Dragon is TBA.



Jeffery Anderson said:
Phil Holland wrote:

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]'
[/FONT]Doesn't sounds like a good deal to upgrade to the Scarlet Dragon, if you can buy a 2nd one for the same price.
Click to expand...
 
So it is ​going to be a bigger frame than the current Epic? Is it going to be bigger than the 5D's full frame size or about the same / smaller?

Phil Holland said:
Something to add to this mix. Red Dragon is going to introduce a new concept when it comes to resolution, aspect ratio, and the standard "Red Formats", such as Full, WS, HD, 2:1. You will be able to shoot at whatever resolution within your sensor sizes limits. So for instance. Do you prefer 2:40:1 or 2:35:1? Or perhaps you would like to shoot at 5.7K resolution for some reason or another. The standard resolutions and formats will be in there, but Dragon will have a user definable sensor/format size as well.
Click to expand...

edit: My bad for the late response, production week
 
so they are going to eventually sell new Scarlets w/dragons sensors for $9500?

Wouldn't it be smart to keep my Scarlet MX and purchase a new Scarlet Dragon, as it's the same price as the upgrade?
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
so they are going to eventually sell new Scarlets w/dragons sensors for $9500?

Wouldn't it be smart to keep my Scarlet MX and purchase a new Scarlet Dragon, as it's the same price as the upgrade?
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That was a typo. The Scarlet Dragon doesn't officially have a price yet, though it will likely be in the neighborhood of the Epic MX.

So the info is bad, but your logic is spot on. If indeed Red gives the dragon sensor away you should at least consider taking one. :smilewinkgrin:
 
its tough to know what the better deal is without knowing what the Scarlet Dragon brain will sell for. Any less then 17k and Scarlet owners are going to start wanting to just buy an additional brain I think. Unless they don't have the cash to...
 
Drew Baird said:
The Scarlet Dragon doesn't officially have a price yet, though it will likely be in the neighborhood of the Epic MX...
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Nowhere was is said that there actually will be a brand new Scarlet Dragon available. As of now the ONLY path to Scarlet Dragon is to have a Scarlet MX and purchase the Scarlet Dragon upgrade. I personally do not think there will be a brand new Scarlet Dragon - it really does not make sense. But it does not matter what I think...

Nothing personal Drew - just wanted to make that point clear for everyone else hoping out for a brand new Dragon Scarlet to be available in the store. As of now there is no plan for such a product...

:sifone: Peter
 
Peter Majtan said:
Nowhere was is said that there actually will be a brand new Scarlet Dragon available. As of now the ONLY path to Scarlet Dragon is to have a Scarlet MX and purchase the Scarlet Dragon upgrade. I personally do not think there will be a brand new Scarlet Dragon - it really does not make sense. But it does not matter what I think...

Nothing personal Drew - just wanted to make that point clear for everyone else hoping out for a brand new Dragon Scarlet to be available in the store. As of now there is no plan for such a product...

:sifone: Peter
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Thanks for the clarification. I honestly don't see much of a point in Red selling the Scarlet Dragon as a stand alone product. I don't know how I was under the impression that they would do otherwise.
 
Peter Majtan said:
Nowhere was is said that there actually will be a brand new Scarlet Dragon available. As of now the ONLY path to Scarlet Dragon is to have a Scarlet MX and purchase the Scarlet Dragon upgrade. I personally do not think there will be a brand new Scarlet Dragon - it really does not make sense. But it does not matter what I think...Peter
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It's about the devaluing of my Camera package...right now it's the fisher price toy called BlackMagic and FS700 'linear' 12bit Raw output.

It would suck if your were an Alexa XT owner...cause the dragon sensor in a Scarlet(if only 120fps @ 4k) would be superior in every way.
 
Drew Baird said:
That was a typo. The Scarlet Dragon doesn't officially have a price yet, though it will likely be in the neighborhood of the Epic MX. So the info is bad, but your logic is spot on. If indeed Red gives the dragon sensor away you should at least consider taking one. :smilewinkgrin:
Click to expand...

Yeah Phil said he fixed it, that's what confused me...figured it couldn't be that way, but if Scarlet Dragons were selling for $9500 in December, I would be upset if I upgraded.
 
Jeffery Anderson said:
Yeah Phil said he fixed it, that's what confused me...figured it couldn't be that way, but if Scarlet Dragons were selling for $9500 in December, I would be upset if I upgraded.
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Yep. Fixed a while ago. What was published was the cost of upgrading Scarlet-X with the Mysterium-X Sensor to Scarlet Dragon with the newer Dragon sensor and tech, which is $9500 for that upgrade.

Release date and new Scarlet Dragon sale price is unknown at this time.
 
Phil Holland said:
Release date and new Scarlet Dragon sale price is unknown at this time.
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Just to further clarify this to prevent any misunderstanding - as of now there is not even a talk about such a product ever being created.
If you start talking about release date and prices "being unknow" - that implicates such a product being mentioned somewhere and the said product being at some stage of development, etc...

This is not the case. As of now there is no such a product as a Scarlet Dragon. There is an upgrade path to existing Scarlet MX owners - that, IMHO, is a amazing and unprecedented show of RED's character and commitment to their customers. It is an answer to the outcry from many Scarlet owners following the official announcement of Dragon. But that is it. There is not even a hint from RED that they would ever plan to release a Scarlet Dragon as a new product. Period.

I just do not want people to have a false hopes thinking that such a product is in the pipeline. It is not. For now. And until we hear otherwise from RED we must assume that there never will be one. You can hope for the best, but plan you business decisions on current facts and common official knowledge - i.e. the worst case scenario...

:sifone: Peter
 
I believe they are going to reléase a Scarlet Dragon anytime soon. If not the Obsolence Obsolete is not going to work for that camera. Red is supposed to have an "entry level" camera. If the Red Scarlets is stuck only with Misterium X Sensor is going to be obsolete in a near future. Im trying to decide if im going to upgrade my Scarlet to an "Scarlet Dragon or trade it for a Epic
 
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Peter Majtan said:
Just to further clarify this to prevent any misunderstanding - as of now there is not even a talk about such a product ever being created.
If you start talking about release date and prices "being unknow" - that implicates such a product being mentioned somewhere and the said product being at some stage of development, etc...

This is not the case. As of now there is no such a product as a Scarlet Dragon. There is an upgrade path to existing Scarlet MX owners - that, IMHO, is a amazing and unprecedented show of RED's character and commitment to their customers. It is an answer to the outcry from many Scarlet owners following the official announcement of Dragon. But that is it. There is not even a hint from RED that they would ever plan to release a Scarlet Dragon as a new product. Period.

I just do not want people to have a false hopes thinking that such a product is in the pipeline. It is not. For now. And until we hear otherwise from RED we must assume that there never will be one. You can hope for the best, but plan you business decisions on current facts and common official knowledge - i.e. the worst case scenario...

:sifone: Peter
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I do not have a direct link but it's here on the forum someware. Jared made quite clear that there wlll be a scarlet dragon. As I understand a scarlet with the higher dynamic range, iso etc but not featuring the full frame of the dragon.
 
Personally, I definitely wouldn't upgrade from Scarlet MX-to-Dragon without first seeing how much a brand new Scarlet-Dragon brain is going to cost. I have a feeling RED is going to wait until after the upgrade window before announcing/releasing the price of a brand new Scarlet-Dragon brain.

The irony is that, if they drop prices within a year again, a Scarlet-Dragon could actually be ~<$9500 by Nov. 2014 and I have no problems shooting on MX until then. And yes, that's essentially the same strategy that Sony/Canon/Panny et al use with their "buy a new camera every two years." With the prices as they are though (with the upgrade costing more than the original brain price), RED have effectively thrown 'obsolescence obsolete' (and their whole upgrade path advantage) right out the window.
 
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I don't know if they are going to be releasing a new sensor every two years though. MX was out for a while, I really doubt that it'll happen that fast Mike P
 
I think he's referring to being able to buy a new Red Scarlet with the upgrade Dragon sensor, not a new sensor...that's what everyone is discussing.
 
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