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Epic vs 5D3 Raw Side by Side

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Mike Quill

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http://nofilmschool.com/2013/05/luke-neumann-aviv-vana-canon-5d-mark-iii-red-epic/#more-54637

The reality is that when you look at these photos side by side (in 1080), there is absolutely no discernible difference, image wise. Yes the ergonomics are different, the Epic can shoot high speeds, the "motion" on the RED may look more filmic, 4K is future proof, yada yada, but really, in 1080 24p I see absolutely no difference.

I am a RED Scarlet and 5D3 owner. If I'm only concerned with final image quality, someone tell me why it's worth spending $30k+ more on an Epic when I can get the exact same image on a 5D3?

Mike
 
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Pichi,

The images look identical, DR wise. Tell me why it's worth spending $30k+ more on an Epic.

Mike
 
Chad,

Yes, you made a car analogy, but you did not give me a reason why someone should drop $30k+ more on an Epic.

Mike
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Pichi,

The images look identical, DR wise. Tell me why it's worth spending $30k+ more on an Epic.

Mike
Click to expand...

Several reasons come to mind:

1) Slow-Mo
2) 5K Delivery
3) Dependability (how long can you shoot RAW on a 5D iii?)
4) File Sizes (how large are the RAW 5d file sizes? Epic is COMPRESSED Raw)
5) Better moire and aliasing

etc, etc

Vincent Laforet weighs in as well:

Vincent: Too little too late in my opinion. C Series and other cameras are what people should be focusing on… but I am looking into it to be honest… the RAW (sic) is cool – just the HDSLR limitations are still pretty severe relative to other cameras and production needs.

EOSHD: What do you think the biggest hindrance is – Hack reliability? File sizes?

Vincent: Hack reliability – and can the body TRULY survive doing this over time (heat/damage?)
Click to expand...

I'm going to have a hard time convincing a client to use a RAW 5D on a 20k shoot. As an extra B or C-Cam it may work though, sure.

But I can't see it replacing the Epic or Scarlet for any of my clients, especially on large high profile jobs where reliability and 4K are just as important as how it looks.
 
Ummm, look at some media on a UHD monitor. Makes HD look like SD of yesteryear.
 
I downloaded the files as well and I am not sure I see the point....the 2.5k and 4k black magic provide better files and are the same price as a 5diii (more or less) and are much better for shooting motion IMO.....
i think it is great that this option is now out there but at best it compares with a scarlet and not even well at that....
I am a still shooter first and come from the 5dii and it still is a great still camera and a very limited motion camera....the epic is an incredible motion camera and provides very, very nice stills....and dragon will be even better because the stills will be better (for me) then any dslr.....on top of being a crazy motion camera....just no comparison....
if all you want is raw HD video....there are several great options out now and I don't think the 5dIii is necessarily the best...
 
Nick,

I hear your points, but at the end of the day, if you can't tell the difference between an image coming off an Epic and a 5D3, don't you have to wonder where all that money went?

Mike
 
MichaelJQuill said:
If I'm only concerned with final image quality, someone tell me why it's worth spending $30k+ more on an Epic when I can get the exact same image on a 5D3?

Mike
Click to expand...

Jello, Skew, Moire, aliasing, red's new global shutter, more direct workflow, ability to record sound, ability to use P/L mount lenses, ability to do high speed, ability to upgrade to dragon (16.5 stop of dynamic range), ability to do 3D, proven track record of reliability (as of now we don't know how long a canon 5Dmk3 can record for in RAW before the sensor burns out)... yadda yadda
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Nick,

I hear your points, but at the end of the day, if you can't tell the difference between an image coming off an Epic and a 5D3, don't you have to wonder where all that money went?

Mike
Click to expand...

My concern right now is the reliabilty of the 5D on a 12hr shoot, not how it looks. And I need 4K. Not 1080. And I need slo-mo.

So the epic is still checking a lot of boxes for me.

Dragon checks even more.

But to each their own. There are no rules, and everyone should make the choices that best suite their needs.

There are no categorical truths.
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Nick,

I hear your points, but at the end of the day, if you can't tell the difference between an image coming off an Epic and a 5D3, don't you have to wonder where all that money went?

Mike
Click to expand...
Did you download the files? There is a huge difference....probably not when downscaled to HD and watching it on Vimeo.....but one file is HD, the other is 5k....if you are only shooting for HD delivery and want raw there are options for a lot less then epic.....
 
Nick,

Also, will your opinion change when the 5D3 becomes rock solid, reliability wise? Can you give us links to the videos on the jobs you've done for $20k where you've delivered in 4K? Impressing the client with a big camera is sometimes an important factor, but for sake of conversation, I'm only interested in final image quality (not pecker waving considerations).

Mike
 
I think the bigger issue is why does this have to come from a hack? and why does spending 10,20,30000 more on cameras from the same manufacturer still not give you anything more then HD and no raw? And people still buy them in truck loads?
 
Paul,

Epic and Scarlet are exactly the same, image wise (minus the field of view difference). Don't see your distinction.

Mike
 
four main reasons:

1. The speed. While I can only shoot RAW at about 0.5 fps with a DSLR, i can go up to 120 fps on the Epic. Sure, if you shoot time lapse only, a DSLR is probably a better and cheaper alternative. But, most people don't.

2. The resolution. If you want to shoot motion picture, clearly the Epic has 5 - 6 times the resolution of HD.

3. The RAW. If you are shooting motion picture, you are shooting RAW giving you much more flexibility in post than h.264.

4. 3D.

Of course, there are situations when DSLR or a GoPro is a better choice. It all depends on what your are trying to achieve.
 
MichaelJQuill said:
Paul,

Epic and Scarlet are exactly the same, image wise (minus the field of view difference). Don't see your distinction.

Mike
Click to expand...
well I just paid 9500 for the ability to shoot 5k at 60fps at 7:1 and that was worth it to me....and I will probably pay another 9500 for the extra mpix and DR....knowing that I will probably only deliver HD (for now)....
 
First I'll say, it's tremendous what Magic Lantern has pulled off.

However, I can see a difference at 1080p here.

Seriously. Just look at the chain above the door.

Also, there is a visible difference in dynamic range and that's without manipulating the image.

Also, 4K.

Also, f/23? Also, diffraction?

Again, super cool. Not exactly the same though. Also not exactly a fair comparison considering camera features.
 
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