Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Magic lantern... Dude.

Adam Johnson said:
Wow. You just made a ton of assumptions about me and my work. Nice move!

Not that it is any of your business but I make great money whether it be with my RED or DSLR in hand. I recently shot on several lucrative gigs including on a feature length documentary with my 7D (the creators won an academy award for best doc last year) and neither of us were about to shoot it with my RED ONE MX. So save me and everyone else the ignorant BS you are spewing through your posts.

Put it this way. I have seen churches that have RED Ones, Epics, etc. and no matter the tech they always seem to create crap material. Same goes for less talented individuals. no matter what you put in their hand its never good.

Honestly, it doesn't always matter what pro camera you use. It's all about the DP/ Operator and creative minds behind the scenes. Regardless how you do things...this is how it works in the real world. Horses for courses.

So please quit acting like you know everything and stop trolling this thread. You are creating lots of negative noise.
Click to expand...

I made no assumptions about you at all, I was only talking about cameras and hypothetical people - "you" is misused - in proper grammar I would have said "one". Sorry about confusion.

The thing is, yes talent is most important, but why waste your talent and hard work around crap cameras? This is a tech thread, so we discuss technology and this is what I am talking about.

I am not trolling - people should be careful about camera choice. You get get away with hacked together lighting fixtures and dollies if you're clever, but you should always be double-sure that your camera is rock-solid, and doing otherwise to save a few hundred coudl easily destroy a shoot and thus someone's career. I don't claim to know everything, but I know this.

Frankly I find the noise is around this announcement. Cheap cameras, in the end, are a false promise that can be very dangerous. One can and should be negative about something that will lead people down a path not very helpful to them.
 
1. Those who think that school is necessary to succeed in any field, well... It all depends on your definition of school... Brick and mortar institutions do nothing for me. Hard work and countless hours in your field?... That's the school I hire from.

2. Even if magic lantern never breaks a 15 second recording time... This is an invaluable tool for so many people that can't, and probably never will be able to afford a true cinema camera.....

the experience that people will get working with this raw footage will be invaluable to them.... Color grading a closer to cinema style shot than canon's crappy compressed color is more than enough to be excited about...

Not to mention that they aren't just focusing on the 5d series.... Every canon that shoots hd video will soon (if not already) be hacked by this group....

How many future professionals will cut their teeth on these extremely hard to deal with but amazing looking files?

my guess is more than will ever attend a proper film school.
 
william howell said:
2. Even if magic lantern never breaks a 15 second recording time... This is an invaluable tool for so many people that can't, and probably never will be able to afford a true cinema camera.....
Click to expand...

It already shoots 4GB files, which is about a minute long.
 
william howell said:
1. Those who think that school is necessary to succeed in any field, well... It all depends on your definition of school... Brick and mortar institutions do nothing for me. Hard work and countless hours in your field?... That's the school I hire from.

2. Even if magic lantern never breaks a 15 second recording time... This is an invaluable tool for so many people that can't, and probably never will be able to afford a true cinema camera.....

the experience that people will get working with this raw footage will be invaluable to them.... Color grading a closer to cinema style shot than canon's crappy compressed color is more than enough to be excited about...

Not to mention that they aren't just focusing on the 5d series.... Every canon that shoots hd video will soon (if not already) be hacked by this group....

How many future professionals will cut their teeth on these extremely hard to deal with but amazing looking files?

my guess is more than will ever attend a proper film school.
Click to expand...

No offense William, but whatever level of career success you may have at this point, you would have more if you had been to film school. Name me one director who has ever made a film that anyone has ever heard of who did not go to film school (or at least a University in the arts and/or fine arts.

The school of hard knocks is ALSO essential, but you need both, and on-set experience will fail to teach you many essential things that a good University degree will. You may be, for example, learning bad habits, which more experience will only further engrain. How would you know? I could be wrong but it sounds like you have only yourself as a teacher - what other person is sitting down and spending hours and hours critiquing your work so you can learn more? This is not the same as an unhappy client who knows nothing about film yelling at you.

Learning the technical nuts and bolts of color grading is not the same as learning intellectual and abstract notions such as film history, socio-culturally adaptive color theory, deep notions of framing theory and so on, not to mention script writing and story, which you absolutely cannot learn only via "hard knocks" and "just doing it".

I don't care about making friends here, but i do care about offering useful lines of thought that actually help people.

It used to be to make a good living in this business you needed to work years, work your way up the ladder, make contacts, and so on, and all this AFTER film school which is a BASIC requirement for anything better than low-budget corporate and wedding videos. Guess what? Cheap cameras have not changed that. There are very few people out there actually getting paid a living wage to do creative things in this business, and all the ones I know, have even heard of, went through that same process and it took a long time and it was very hard. You know how many interviews I have been to for potential employment as a DP or director where the client/agent/manager/producer DIDN'T ask me where I went to school? None. Zero. Nada. I was at an electronic music label last month for a music video gig, and THEY asked me. I can tell you, having been only to a highly reputable Canadian film school (Concordia) has set me back - hearing USC or NYU would be way better for these people.

Guess what else, cheap cameras have not created more paying gigs either, they have not added new advertisers, film audiences, TV networks, or any other new legitimate buyers of content. So having cameras be $3000 or $0 changes nothing - it doesn't create new paying jobs, it doesn't make them easier to get. It used to be, we'd get a gig, rent gear for that gig. Now we own some gear. WHat has changed? Nothing, except we put that rental in our pockets (although many things we bought have yet to turn a profit, and to some degree I wonder, in hindsight, if buying it was such a hot idea).

Actually, it does change something - it has now made it harder to get people to look at your reel, because they have 10 000 bozos calling a day with Vimeo links, none of which they watch - it has become LESS democratic than ever, because now you need to be referred for people to even watch your demo link - you need to already be inside, and that didn't used to be the case.

Look at it this way: writing scripts is easy in terms of equipment. You can do it with a $100 used computer. No one will be able to tell that it was typed on a cheap computer, it will look, EXACTLY the same as the scripts written by million-per-script Hollywood writing superstars. Does that mean that selling scripts to people is "democratized"? (Hint: the answer is not "yes".)
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
No offense William, but whatever level of career success you may have at this point, you would have more if you had been to film school. Name me one director who has ever made a film that anyone has ever heard of who did not go to film school (or at least a University in the arts and/or fine arts.

The school of hard knocks is ALSO essential, but you need both, and on-set experience will fail to teach you many essential things that a good University degree will. You may be, for example, learning bad habits, which more experience will only further engrain. How would you know? I could be wrong but it sounds like you have only yourself as a teacher - what other person is sitting down and spending hours and hours critiquing your work so you can learn more? This is not the same as an unhappy client who knows nothing about film yelling at you.

Learning the technical nuts and bolts of color grading is not the same as learning intellectual and abstract notions such as film history, socio-culturally adaptive color theory, deep notions of framing theory and so on, not to mention script writing and story, which you absolutely cannot learn only via "hard knocks" and "just doing it".

I don't care about making friends here, but i do care about offering useful lines of thought that actually help people.

It used to be to make a good living in this business you needed to work years, work your way up the ladder, make contacts, and so on, and all this AFTER film school which is a BASIC requirement for anything better than low-budget corporate and wedding videos. Guess what? Cheap cameras have not changed that. There are very few people out there actually getting paid a living wage to do creative things in this business, and all the ones I know, have even heard of, went through that same process and it took a long time and it was very hard. You know how many interviews I have been to for potential employment as a DP or director where the client/agent/manager/producer DIDN'T ask me where I went to school? None. Zero. Nada. I was at an electronic music label last month for a music video gig, and THEY asked me. I can tell you, having been only to a highly reputable Canadian film school (Concordia) has set me back - hearing USC or NYU would be way better for these people.

Guess what else, cheap cameras have not created more paying gigs either, they have not added new advertisers, film audiences, TV networks, or any other new legitimate buyers of content. So having cameras be $3000 or $0 changes nothing - it doesn't create new paying jobs, it doesn't make them easier to get. It used to be, we'd get a gig, rent gear for that gig. Now we own some gear. WHat has changed? Nothing, except we put that rental in our pockets (although many things we bought have yet to turn a profit, and to some degree I wonder, in hindsight, if buying it was such a hot idea).

Actually, it does change something - it has now made it harder to get people to look at your reel, because they have 10 000 bozos calling a day with Vimeo links, none of which they watch - it has become LESS democratic than ever, because now you need to be referred for people to even watch your demo link - you need to already be inside, and that didn't used to be the case.

Look at it this way: writing scripts is easy in terms of equipment. You can do it with a $100 used computer. No one will be able to tell that it was typed on a cheap computer, it will look, EXACTLY the same as the scripts written by million-per-script Hollywood writing superstars. Does that mean that selling scripts to people is "democratized"? (Hint: the answer is not "yes".)
Click to expand...

I can't tell if you're joking or not. If not, that list couldn't be contained in this forum...
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
No offense William, but whatever level of career success you may have at this point, you would have more if you had been to film school. Name me one director who has ever made a film that anyone has ever heard of who did not go to film school (or at least a University in the arts and/or fine arts.

The school of hard knocks is ALSO essential, but you need both, and on-set experience will fail to teach you many essential things that a good University degree will. You may be, for example, learning bad habits, which more experience will only further engrain. How would you know? I could be wrong but it sounds like you have only yourself as a teacher - what other person is sitting down and spending hours and hours critiquing your work so you can learn more? This is not the same as an unhappy client who knows nothing about film yelling at you.

Learning the technical nuts and bolts of color grading is not the same as learning intellectual and abstract notions such as film history, socio-culturally adaptive color theory, deep notions of framing theory and so on, not to mention script writing and story, which you absolutely cannot learn only via "hard knocks" and "just doing it".

I don't care about making friends here, but i do care about offering useful lines of thought that actually help people.

It used to be to make a good living in this business you needed to work years, work your way up the ladder, make contacts, and so on, and all this AFTER film school which is a BASIC requirement for anything better than low-budget corporate and wedding videos. Guess what? Cheap cameras have not changed that. There are very few people out there actually getting paid a living wage to do creative things in this business, and all the ones I know, have even heard of, went through that same process and it took a long time and it was very hard. You know how many interviews I have been to for potential employment as a DP or director where the client/agent/manager/producer DIDN'T ask me where I went to school? None. Zero. Nada. I was at an electronic music label last month for a music video gig, and THEY asked me. I can tell you, having been only to a highly reputable Canadian film school (Concordia) has set me back - hearing USC or NYU would be way better for these people.

Guess what else, cheap cameras have not created more paying gigs either, they have not added new advertisers, film audiences, TV networks, or any other new legitimate buyers of content. So having cameras be $3000 or $0 changes nothing - it doesn't create new paying jobs, it doesn't make them easier to get. It used to be, we'd get a gig, rent gear for that gig. Now we own some gear. WHat has changed? Nothing, except we put that rental in our pockets (although many things we bought have yet to turn a profit, and to some degree I wonder, in hindsight, if buying it was such a hot idea).

Actually, it does change something - it has now made it harder to get people to look at your reel, because they have 10 000 bozos calling a day with Vimeo links, none of which they watch - it has become LESS democratic than ever, because now you need to be referred for people to even watch your demo link - you need to already be inside, and that didn't used to be the case.

Look at it this way: writing scripts is easy in terms of equipment. You can do it with a $100 used computer. No one will be able to tell that it was typed on a cheap computer, it will look, EXACTLY the same as the scripts written by million-per-script Hollywood writing superstars. Does that mean that selling scripts to people is "democratized"? (Hint: the answer is not "yes".)
Click to expand...

Let's start it off with the big ones. Tarantino, Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Kubrick, David Fincher, Sam Raimi, James Cameron...should I go on?
 
Bob Minervini said:
Ok, who is going to be the brave one out there to make a comparison test, epic vs canon 5dmkIIIraw? one vs alexa would also go, to start with. If I had easy access to all of them I would. Nothing scientific, just a window and a doll, something like that.
Click to expand...

I could do that, if I only had access to a doll to put in the window.

-- peer
 
Luke Neumann said:
I can't tell if you're joking or not. If not, that list couldn't be contained in this forum...
Click to expand...

Guys from 30-50 years ago, sure, but not recently. 50 years ago a guy could run a bank with a high school degree.

Now take a walk through a Hollywood studio and talk to directors, DPs, set designers, screenwriters. You'll meet very few people who like me only have degrees from good but not super-famous places. The rest? All the best schools a lot of money can buy. Not all have film degrees, some it's literature, law, etc. High school only? I know this sounds bad, but those people almost don't exist above the line.
 
Luke Neumann said:
Let's start it off with the big ones. Tarantino, Spielberg, Peter Jackson, Kubrick, David Fincher, Sam Raimi, James Cameron...should I go on?
Click to expand...

All those people have University degrees. I think the only exception is Tarantino, I'd have to check. Besides those people are one in a million hyper talents mixed with one in a million right-time-right-place. Like I said, for most people no degree means a huge hinderance, which could easily mean remaining well below the line for their entire careers.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Now take a walk through a Hollywood studio and talk to directors, DPs, set designers, screenwriters. You'll meet very few people who like me only have degrees from good but not super-famous places. The rest? All the best schools a lot of money can buy. Not all have film degrees, some it's literature, law, etc. High school only? I know this sounds bad, but those people almost don't exist above the line.
Click to expand...

That could explain why Hollywood is in such a decline and ever more projects / people leave it for greener pastures... ;o)

(I'm trying to be polite here...)
 
it's a nice still camera with video..not on paid jobs though if you have a budget..(Hollywood is hype like this camera, which I do own)
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
I will try to do that with skin textures. I am not scared of hurting anybody's feelings.
Click to expand...

Oh that would be great if you could post some side by side. Indeed skin tones is where canon really do great.
I bet it will better time spent than all this university or no university talk that this thread got into.
 
Peer Landa said:
I could do that, if I only had access to a doll to put in the window.

-- peer
Click to expand...

A glass margarita will also do.

Anyway I'm sure that if you were to do the comparison tests a group donation will ensue that will make sure that your next tests you'll not miss the doll.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
All those people have University degrees. I think the only exception is Tarantino, I'd have to check. Besides those people are one in a million hyper talents mixed with one in a million right-time-right-place. Like I said, for most people no degree means a huge hinderance, which could easily mean remaining well below the line for their entire careers.
Click to expand...

Talent isn't really the significant factor in things. You only have to glance about the world to see that. It helps but you need a lot of other things first.
The world is not a meritocracy.

Setting the talent issue aside. I know that where I live, university degrees, and all the other bits of paper, are actually fairly worthless in themselves. People have made an assumption based on the evidence they have which is understandable. They look at the evidence and they note that people with university degrees do wildly better than those that do not. They then make the huge leap that it was having the bit of paper that lead to their success. In reality it tends to be certain kinds of people who go to university in the first place. Those people would probably be the successful ones regardless of whether they went to university or not. The fact is that the people who get to go to university are for the most part in the upper echelons of society in the first place.

I'm sure it can help to some extent because it's possible they will get to meet people from different kinds of backgrounds to their own and may start to realise a lot of things that are going on in the world, and having that bit of paper may have some small effect in helping them too. I think the effect of the bit of paper in itself is far less than people imagine tho.

Having a bit of paper doesn't mean that much really.

Freya
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
If you own a Red, then why would you use a MKIII for video at all?
Click to expand...

Cheaper, so less of an issue if it gets smashed up or stolen. (could be used as a crash cam on big shoots?)
Has the option of a non raw workflow for faster turnarounds.
Can use lighter tripods/cranes/MoVI/quadcopter etc etc
Can fit into small spaces.
Red One doesn't fit in my handbag.

That's just off the top of my head!

Freya
 
@Rob,

Do you think there is any hope for people like me who have never been to film school - but have dreams of 'telling great stories through film?
Should we give up now - or do the best they can and strive towards making their dreams come true?

I also note that some people who are not classically trained, can find meaning and structure in places where those that are cannot.
Maybe their measure of success in this field is one of self-expression rather than box-office success?

AJ
 
Last edited:
Antony Newman said:
@Rob,

Do you think there is any hope for people like me who have never been to film school - but have dreams of 'telling great stories through film?
Should we give up now - or do the best they can and strive towards making their dreams come true?

I also note that some people who are not classically trained can find meaning and structure in places that those are cannot.
Maybe their measure of success in this field is one of self-expression rather than box-office success?

AJ
Click to expand...

Industry has change. Whether you go to school or not. You have to make sure that you mix with the right people and get a good information. It's not about go to school vs not go to school at all. The nature is too strong for logic. The road is rough, anything good does not come easy. But you should not give up and have to really focus. Business is about networking, knowing savvy tech does not automatically get you work. Going to school is also part of networking as beginner. You dont only learn technical stuff there. You mix with people. These people will eventually get into the industry one day and so you are. Finding those good guy is the hard part.

R
 
Freya said:
The videos shot with the magic lantern raw video hack seem to be finally moving on from pictures of dogs/cats/flowers and windows:

http://www.redsharknews.com/technol...tiful-video-from-the-canon-raw-video-hack-yet

Freya
Click to expand...

Note how every single clip in the first video is locked-off on a tripod without even a slight movement.
The second video bellow is little better with super slow on-tripod pan and tilts and the very occasional handheld shot - which gives away the main issue - the jellocam_mkIII_RAW syndrome...

Forgive me, but for me the "motion" part of motion pictures (read cinema) is the movement of the camera. This was always the main give-away for me between projects shot on video and projects shot on film (and digital film later on - RED) - in video productions peeps frequently used zooms. I used to own a set of VP's. While they might behave like zooms - they are called VP's for a reason. Variable Primes. It allowed you to reframe your shot without having to move the dolly track (or what not grip you were using at the time), but you would never change the FOV during the actual take. In "true" cinematic language (IMHO) you move the camera to add dimensionality to the scene. If I am forever forbidden to move my camera in order to use the RAW capture - then no. Thank you very much, but no...

What is really sad is that the true power of the 5DmkIII as an amazing still camera is being overshadowed by all this HDSLR hype. Don't take me wrong - I am all for peeps without budget or access to more advanced gear to be able to use these cameras to cut their teeth, or even to create some amazing pieces (after all I would rather watch an amazing story shot on 5DmkIII (not in the RAW mode!) then some piece of c*** shot on Epic any day). Just please do not try to compare it with the likes of RED / Alexa or mention that it poses a "real alternative" to such a cameras. It is an insult to these cameras and more importantly - it is an insult to the 5DmkIII. Canon does not allow the RAW motion capture on it for a reason...

:sifone: Peter
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top