Apple push to win back pro editors

[william howell]

Many of us need certain functionalities built into an editing program that apple disregarded with the release of fpx.

1. It may not cost a lot of money, but it is anything but a cheap product.

2. Buy it... Don't even think about it.

3. They will fix all the network/sharing related issues that some of us need and announce final cut X.1 when they release the Mac Pro in June (fingers and toes crossed)... And if they don't... Who cares? You'll have edited 30-40 projects by WWDC in June and made your money back 10 x's over.


Real time scrubbing through clips... it'll change your life... If it doesn't... So what? It's 300.00

do it... Don't let our complaining about apple's business side if things dissuade you from trying fpx.

It really is nice to edit in. Magnetic timeline is a little weird... But... There are some decent workarounds I learned on this forum.

good luck man.

Yes we all know the following .....

FCPX is not FCP 7
FCPX is not Avid
FCPX is not Premier
FCPX pisses off a lot people
FCPX is different to other NLE's.
FCPX is cheap.
FCPX cant be used on PC.

Anything I missed ?

Now thats out of the way can we please move on from the FCPX hate & start trying to understand this software for people who are considering adding it to their NLE quiver. I'm in that boat right now as my Mac Pro died (dam you fate) right in the middle of a job. So in the next day or so I'm buying a Retina display or an Imac & for a miserly $300 get FCPX as well.

So before I embark on the frustration of learning a new NLE I would like to know exactly what I'm getting into with threads like this . Possible of impossible ?

P.S. @ David B.

Thanks for the long & considered reply. Interesting you can get AAF files out of FCPX with 3rd party app. Never new that. AAF opens straight up in Pro-tools & I've used it previously in getting edits into post houses.

 

[Neil W. Smith]

Importance of training with mastering FCP X ...

Importance of training with mastering FCP X ...

I highly recommend buying and doing some training along with the new purchase. I bought Larry Jordan's training series, but ripple training is excellent as well.

I edited stuff beforehand with the software, but the training helps explain what the software does, while explaining how it differs from what we are all "used" to after twenty years of editing with linear thinking NLE's.

i bought the training and watched a couple of tutorials a day. It s extremely helpful.

I used to be a "figure it all out by myself" person, but its actually really worth learning what the software "does" do and the logic behind the way it is set up.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?67476-THREADIQUITTE

Very good point, David, on the importance of training if you want to become proficient in FCP X quickly .... guess it's something we take for granted ... I tried to learn SMOKE on my own until I realized that it was way more efficient to invest time and effort into learning from guys who had already mastered the software ... it was the same with FCP X - on the surface it looks intuitive and simple (like iMovie) but under the hood it's quite complex and powerful especially when it comes to getting the most out of using metadata, tagging and keywords ... didn't get any of that stuff (or why it's important) until Sam Mestman showed me how he was setting up FCP X for the XSAN multi-user user SAN I'd set up.


Sam's three part tutorials (free) are also a useful complement to Larry Jordan's and Steve Martin's online tutorials:

Part 01: project prep - http://www.moviemaker.com/diy/movies...rkflow-part-1/
Part 02: Editing - http://www.moviemaker.com/diy/movies...y-sam-mestman/
Part 03: Finishing - http://www.moviemaker.com/diy/movies...rkflow-part-3/

Plus, Sam is presenting a Moviola FCP X webinar on April 23rd, 2013 at 11:30 AM PST to 1:00 PM PST ... more details on the Moviola site:

http://moviola.com/webinars/final-cut-pro-x-red-feature-film-workflows/#.UXPxK78tZeU

Plus, we'll be presenting at this Wednesday's LACPUG meeting on April 24th ... this is what Michael Horton has to say about the session:

7:40PM - 8:15PM - Final Cut Pro X - 4K RED Workflow - Sam Mestman and Neil Smith

Sam Mestman from Lumaforge will be demoing the extensive 4k RED workflow capabilities Final Cut Pro X has to offer and explain why it's now just as easy to deliver in 4k as it is in 1080. He'll also be showing how FCPX can simplify as well as expand the traditional roles of the DIT, Assistant Editor, Editor, and colorist in an FCPX-Resolve pipeline to allow them to spend more time on the creative process, and less time on conforming/troubleshooting/banging your head against the wall. He'll take you from best practices for importing and grading your RED footage, to how to work with your metadata to speed up project prep, to taking advantage of some of FCPX's power features like the timeline index, all the way down to how FCPX integrates with Resolve for seamless delivery, regardless of resolution. FCPX has undergone an astonishing amount of development since it was first released, and is now a compelling option for professional DIT's, editors, and colorists, regardless of your workflow or deliverable.

More details here:

http://www.lafcpug.org/user_schedule.html

And finally, we have our 4K MADE EASY Training Day on Saturday April 27th on The Lot in West Hollywood .... if you want to know how to set up and use FCP X in a shared-storage XSAN environment with several workstations all accessing the same RED EPIC files at the same time, sign up for the sessions:

http://www.lumaforge.com/styled-2/index.html

As well as going into depth on FCP X functionality and round-tripping with DaVinci Resolve, SMOKE and Redcine-X we'll also have EIZO professional 4K monitors, the Seiki UHDTV 50" SE50UY04 TV plus a prototype 4K projector we're co-developing (if it's ready to demo) ..... 4K workflow is now affordable and practical ... FCP X is one of the tools to unlock that potential.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Sergio Perez]

Ok, real life horror story:

A Lacie drive with my project in it failed. I was confident I was ok since I recently just duplicated the project to another drive. To my surprise, after duplicating project, FCPX, on the duplicate, only created a "referral" to the original, didn't copy the clips ! This is idiotic!! Suffice to say, I lost EVERYTHING. With Media manager, you could export a project with handles and duplicates of the original media. Now, I lost everything. The hard disk smells "burnt" and the disk is not spinning. Am not happy with the acquisition of Lacie by seagate. This was a Seagate drive failure. Really really upset right now...

 

[Terry VerHaar]

Very sorry for the horrible inconvenience and pain. It's terrible when this stuff happens. But, lets be clear, this was classic operator error. Knowing you were duplicating the project and not the media is your responsibility as a user. Duplicating a project can let you go forward while saving a "version." Since all editing in FCPX is non- destructive, no one would want to duplicate an entire set of media every time you want to save a version.

If I recall, this is exactly the way iit worked in FCP 7 as well. Does duplicating a project in Premiere actually create a copy of all the media?

 

[Sergio Perez]

Very sorry for the horrible inconvenience and pain. It's terrible when this stuff happens. But, lets be clear, this was classic operator error. Knowing you were duplicating the project and not the media is your responsibility as a user. Duplicating a project can let you go forward while saving a "version." Since all editing in FCPX is non- destructive, no one would want to duplicate an entire set of media every time you want to save a version.

If I recall, this is exactly the way iit worked in FCP 7 as well. Does duplicating a project in Premiere actually create a copy of all the media?

There are 3 options in the duplicate window:

Duplicate project only

Duplicate project and referenced Events

Duplicate project and used clips

Now logic would suggest going with the last one would be like doing the same as in the previous FCP. The middle option sounded like copying every single clip, including non used, from the Events, and the first one a simple copy of the project file. I went with the last one. It only did "shortcuts" to the original media. Is it operator error for not knowing it was doing a shortcut instead of copying the project files like it says? Probably, because one should try everything before going serious. But I never expected this. Absolutely idiotic. There where files on the project from multiple events, true, but on the previous FCP, when duplicating a project and copying the used files, it would NOT create mere shortcuts!!

What the heck where they thinking?

 

[Scott Crawley]

Ok, real life horror story:

A Lacie drive with my project in it failed. I was confident I was ok since I recently just duplicated the project to another drive. To my surprise, after duplicating project, FCPX, on the duplicate, only created a "referral" to the original, didn't copy the clips ! This is idiotic!! Suffice to say, I lost EVERYTHING. With Media manager, you could export a project with handles and duplicates of the original media. Now, I lost everything. The hard disk smells "burnt" and the disk is not spinning. Am not happy with the acquisition of Lacie by seagate. This was a Seagate drive failure. Really really upset right now...

If the platters were not damaged the data should be intact and recoverable. Take it to a specialist.

Just so that we are speaking the same language, did you duplicate the project or the event and what was your exact method?

 

[Sergio Perez]

If the platters were not damaged the data should be intact and recoverable. Take it to a specialist.

Just so that we are speaking the same language, did you duplicate the project or the event and what was your exact method?

Hi Scott,I just selected the last option from the duplicate project menu as described before.I didn't duplicate events. I hope its really saveable. Smells burnt. Took the HDD out of the lacie enclosure. It doesn't spin...

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Ok, real life horror story:

A Lacie drive with my project in it failed. I was confident I was ok since I recently just duplicated the project to another drive. To my surprise, after duplicating project, FCPX, on the duplicate, only created a "referral" to the original, didn't copy the clips ! This is idiotic!! Suffice to say, I lost EVERYTHING. With Media manager, you could export a project with handles and duplicates of the original media. Now, I lost everything. The hard disk smells "burnt" and the disk is not spinning. Am not happy with the acquisition of Lacie by seagate. This was a Seagate drive failure. Really really upset right now...

Hi Sergio,

awful to hear *but*


In previous versions, every time you duplicated events to another drive, FCPX would copy all the media. Even if you worked with simlinks in the original projects. This was maddening because you could get a lot of copies of all your media in Event Folders, where you even didn't want it. Since 10.0.6 they changed this, and if you worked with simlinks in your original project, FCPX would copy the simlinks only. If you work with original media, it would copy original media.
And there is even a very easy way to do exactly what you wanted, have FCPX change the simlinks to the real media (although without handles, only complete media though). Simple select the Event and choose: Organize Event Files (or something like that). It's all explained here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqtOcAQWcHE

Again... Not attacking you, but there is a lot of hidden functionality in FCPX, and it's a really new program, for EVERYONE. Even the people who use it day in day out discover new things every day...
Hope you get something saved from the project...

Kind regards,

M.

 

[Brad Webb]

Ok, real life horror story:

A Lacie drive with my project in it failed. I was confident I was ok since I recently just duplicated the project to another drive. To my surprise, after duplicating project, FCPX, on the duplicate, only created a "referral" to the original, didn't copy the clips ! This is idiotic!! Suffice to say, I lost EVERYTHING. With Media manager, you could export a project with handles and duplicates of the original media. Now, I lost everything. The hard disk smells "burnt" and the disk is not spinning. Am not happy with the acquisition of Lacie by seagate. This was a Seagate drive failure. Really really upset right now...

I had this happen to a Lacie drive right out of the box (this was in 2005). I plugged it in and a puff of smoke came out of the drive. Smelled like something was burnt inside. Most people swear by Lacie, but I refuse to buy one of the plug in ones after that.

Having a drive fail always sucks.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Hi Sergio,

awful to hear *but*


In previous versions, every time you duplicated events to another drive, FCPX would copy all the media. Even if you worked with simlinks in the original projects. This was maddening because you could get a lot of copies of all your media in Event Folders, where you even didn't want it. Since 10.0.6 they changed this, and if you worked with simlinks in your original project, FCPX would copy the simlinks only. If you work with original media, it would copy original media.
And there is even a very easy way to do exactly what you wanted, have FCPX change the simlinks to the real media (although without handles, only complete media though). Simple select the Event and choose: Organize Event Files (or something like that). It's all explained here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqtOcAQWcHE

Again... Not attacking you, but there is a lot of hidden functionality in FCPX, and it's a really new program, for EVERYONE. Even the people who use it day in day out discover new things every day...
Hope you get something saved from the project...

Kind regards,

M.

Ok, Mathieu, maybe there's a way to do what I wanted, but the thing here is that I actually went all the way to duplicate my project and selected a "Duplicate project and used clips" option in an editing software. I was somehow relieved that I had done that the previous day when the drive failed, and was shocked when I saw I didn't copy or duplicated the files.

Your answer sounds a bit like "You're holding it wrong"- Apple fans know this.

What type of intuitive wording and editing is this? I had to "Organize events" or something else to get a project copy with the files???

Come on...

Sorry about my wordings but am in the medium of all of this. HDD went to media recovery company. Its gonna cost big bucks I'm sure. Money I was saving for my Dragon upgrade.

 

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Hi Sergio,

well, I don't think it's a case of holding it wrong. Because the previous behaviour of FCPX was to always copy that media. And me, and a lot of others sent feedback to Apple to change this. Now it is more easy in the sense that if you work with simlinks, your copy will also have simlinks. If you have media already on all drives you need in the way you already organised it on an Finder-level, it doesn't copy it again in the FCP Events folder, causing you to have the media twice. *unless* you tell it too (trough organize Event Files).

I'm not defending FCPX. I have my wish lists and a long list of things I think can be better. Hell, I even asked Apple my money back when it was first released. But the way the media management now works in this case we are talking about, I was really glad when it worked the way it did.
I'm still sorry for you. An important hard drive corrupting is everyones nightmare.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Hi Sergio,

well, I don't think it's a case of holding it wrong. Because the previous behaviour of FCPX was to always copy that media. And me, and a lot of others sent feedback to Apple to change this. Now it is more easy in the sense that if you work with simlinks, your copy will also have simlinks. If you have media already on all drives you need in the way you already organised it on an Finder-level, it doesn't copy it again in the FCP Events folder, causing you to have the media twice. *unless* you tell it too (trough organize Event Files).

I'm not defending FCPX. I have my wish lists and a long list of things I think can be better. Hell, I even asked Apple my money back when it was first released. But the way the media management now works in this case we are talking about, I was really glad when it worked the way it did.
I'm still sorry for you. An important hard drive corrupting is everyones nightmare.

Well, Mathieu, you guys pushed it for that route but at least they should name the things right or create some sort of warning. Look at the link you provided: Both presenters sound puzzled to the option, just like I did. The "extra step" is nowhere explained in the software. I just got myself hurt by this. User error? Definitely. But was I misled by the software? Also true. Anyway, thank you for your kind words. Awaiting for a quote for the recovery.

 

[Mike Garrick]

Hey Sergio

Watching your struggles with a sigh..I know what its like when the tech gods frown down on you. My computer died Friday & the animators died on Sunday ..right in the middle of a job.

Anyway, what I'm trying to grasp is why your in the bind you are with the death of a HD. Surely you can just replace the media with a backup & rename the new HD with the old HD name? Or did you loose the FCPX EDL as well ( what ever the heck they call it) with the HD or does FCPX not recognise or allow new file paths?

There also appears to be a problem with FCPX descriptions ie. new words for new concepts which don't give clarity on the function they describe.

Pardon my ignorance ....I'm in no way passing judgement because we are all at some stage newbie's ( I'm not even that yet ) . Hope you manage to recover your data.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Hey Sergio

Watching your struggles with a sigh..I know what its like when the tech gods frown down on you. My computer died Friday & the animators died on Sunday ..right in the middle of a job.

Anyway, what I'm trying to grasp is why your in the bind you are with the death of a HD. Surely you can just replace the media with a backup & rename the new HD with the old HD name? Or did you loose the FCPX EDL as well ( what ever the heck they call it) with the HD or does FCPX not recognise or allow new file paths?

There also appears to be a problem with FCPX descriptions ie. new words for new concepts which don't give clarity on the function they describe.

Pardon my ignorance ....I'm in no way passing judgement because we are all at some stage newbie's ( I'm not even that yet ) . Hope you manage to recover your data.

There was certainly a big, big issue on my part in this whole process: I was editing on the HDD of the master files. This I am to blame. I should have backed everything up. Lets just say I have been extremely lucky with LACIE drives until today and NEVER, in more than 7 years using those drives, had something like this happening- except last October, when I had a corrupted file that was saved by Disk Warrior. Its the first drive in more than 30 (!) Lacie D2's that has really "died" on me. I was gambling all these years and presto, DEAD hdd, loss of the files and/or a very expensive recovery.

I lost some of my TVC's Original R3D's. Luckily it is No actors stuff that I will have to reshoot (at a Loss). Its my fault and not the clients. The problem, however, is not this. I actually did SALVAGE- or I thought I did- the project by duplicating the project and by copying the files associated with it to another Hard disk. I THOUGHT I had lost some other files, but not the Vital ones from this specific project that I THOUGHT final cut pro X copied with the "Duplicate project with used files" option. I was exactly like the guy on the left side in this video that Mathieu shared:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqtOcAQWcHE

So basically, I had a copy of the project with a copy of SHORTCUTS to the original media. Fantastic.

Anyway, this is just one single real life project and failure in FCPX. I hope someone learns from this that just happened to me. This is in no way explained or is there a warning about this in the software or menus. Not without a thorough search or explore.

Do not repeat my error and if you want to duplicate a project remember after duplicating it to somewhere to do the "organize event files" "extra step", because if you don't, what happened to me WILL happen.

UPDATE- Got a quote from a Recovery expert saying good chance of recovery- price? 400 USD. time of delivery- after my deadline. I will have to reshoot. However, knowing the files have a good chance of being recovered somehow leaves me more relieved.

 

[Scott Crawley]

As you undoubtedly know, copying GBs of data can take a long time. It may seem instantaneous because the items appear in your lists very quickly but these are just the sim files. FCPX does most of the data management in the background. First it creates the alias files, also known as sim files or "pointers" and then it completes the duplication in the background, replacing the sims with actual data. It sounds like you failed to allow FCPX to complete that process.

 

[Eric Santiago]

If you ingest your media with everything checked off at first event, FCPX will follow suit when asked to duplicate Project/Event.
It just copies the links to original media.
Im not sure if this is your case Sergio.
I wish you luck.

 

[Sergio Perez]

As you undoubtedly know, copying GBs of data can take a long time. It may seem instantaneous because the items appear in your lists very quickly but these are just the sim files. FCPX does most of the data management in the background. First it creates the alias files, also known as sim files or "pointers" and then it completes the duplication in the background, replacing the sims with actual data. It sounds like you failed to allow FCPX to complete that process.

No Scott, I did exactly what they are doing on the video supplied by Mathieu, without doing the "extra" "Organize Event Media" step. What this meant was that I had a duplicate of the project with only sims.

 

[Scott Crawley]

No Scott, I did exactly what they are doing on the video supplied by Mathieu, without doing the "extra" "Organize Event Media" step. What this meant was that I had a duplicate of the project with only sims.

I see. It appears I was overlooking that step as well.

 

[Sergio Perez]

I see. It appears I was overlooking that step as well.

Luckily for you nothing of the similar happened in terms of drive failure. At least I know someone will benefit from my personal experience...

 

[Scott Crawley]

Luckily for you nothing of the similar happened in terms of drive failure. At least I know someone will benefit from my personal experience...

I suppose I've had some luck, but I triple backup everything, use more than one method to copy it and triple check the files. This is especially true when I'm using new software. (FCPX seems convenient, but I still prefer to use R3D Data Manager for offloading mags to multiple locations at once.) When it is for a client I get very particular, and the bigger the project is the more anal I get about it. Clients tend not to follow through with all of the backup, so as the editor or DIT I feel responsible to insist it get done and usually do it myself. You can see on their faces that they are reluctant to spend the money, but they seldom refuse because they understand that it is important.

I have had many drive failures over the years, but thankfully I have not lost footage.