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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

NAB13- RED MOTION MOUNT

Daniel Soderberg said:
Also wondering how is handles strobes.
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From what I saw streamed today, they have a setup at the booth with the mount. The camera is pointed at a bunch of rolling-shutter-aggrivating objects, including a strobe. Obviously I couldn't see the actual effects, being a lower-res stream and all, but everyone seemed sufficiently impressed with the on/off demonstration.

What the limits are, I don't know. But it seemed to have some kind of impact, at least. Maybe someone who was at the booth today can chime in further.
 
This is the icing on the cake. Dragon and the h.264 Avid and ProRes module were the cake... this is EXTRA credit!

I can't wait to see samples of everything.

Oh, and the ET stuff is just amazeballs... (yes, it is a word)

love ET, love RED
 
James McLellan said:
I looked at the motion mount today. The rolling shutter effect from flashes and strobes appeared to be gone. ND worked well. The skew effect was still present. Skew was never as much of an issue with me as flash but for some people it may be important to know. The impression I got was that they were still working on things. That's what I observed.
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Thanks James....
I've been thinking a little more on this...and I'm not sure it can be removed this way...

Still I agree with it not being too critical....I do a lot of 3d tracking which the skew really wreaks havoc on...but it is still capable of a good track....the hard part is skewing your 3d to match...
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Now that's not good. I have a mate who used this, loved it, and was about to place an order.

I love what RED have done with this tech, building it into a mount; very clever. But I'm not wildly enthusiastic IF they're involved in this move by Tessive; that would mean they've also shut off the tech from everyone else who wanted it... we don't all shoot RED all the time, and now it appears we've had one tool removed from our toolbox. A backwards step.

Do folks see where I'm coming from?

Mike
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Have to agree with you on this - would have been nice if Tessive carried on selling a standalone version. Hopefully Red will allow that once the initial exclusivity selling point for DSMC wears off.

Tessive standalone was too expensive to own though. Given the light loss, it wasn't a leave on and forget type accessory until camera sensitivities hit a certain level, so would be used only when needed for strobes and such.
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
Now that's not good. I have a mate who used this, loved it, and was about to place an order.

I love what RED have done with this tech, building it into a mount; very clever. But I'm not wildly enthusiastic IF they're involved in this move by Tessive; that would mean they've also shut off the tech from everyone else who wanted it... we don't all shoot RED all the time, and now it appears we've had one tool removed from our toolbox. A backwards step.

Do folks see where I'm coming from?

Mike
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Mike, assuming for a moment that RED has anything to do with it, would you have preferred for Tessive to just close doors and on one used their tech?


Progress also includes acquisitions and or integrations of products.
 
Jarred Land said:
heh heh. Funny stuff. I actually first saw this (similar) technology in a welding mask way back when we first stated. The mask automatically went dark when it sensed light by a low voltage current and a light sensor.. The light bulb literally went off and we have been searching for a solution ever since.. and finally found it.
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B&H had a solution all along :) .

It could do something like 1/6000 a second switch. I was thinking of getting one and doing some fancy stiff with it, beyond what I'm admiring to here. But the crowd on dvinfo didn't produce the cheap cinema camera for me yo use it on.

What might interest you was that I wanted to apply it directly to the sensor pattern to get variable gain per pixel, or on the light path of the lens. It could be electric ally controlled, but on the focused image plain it did not have to be.

HDR sensor technologies made the dr plans useless so In gave up on it, but It did come up with an alternative variable density filter that was virtually clear ( near zero) off and infinitely variable, with out stuffing around with colors, iris image etc. Was looking at a lot of equipment innovations to overcome problems in equipment and equipment use in those days. A number have been rediscovered and marketed by others. One of my interests was non linear nd hdr and looked at a number of ways it might be achieved. Still, the 27stop+ hdr with color constancy of the old omron car cameras is hard to beat.
 
If it it is possible to fully block the light:

+) 't1' is the time it takes to reset the sensor
+) 't2' is time to read the sensor
+) 'T' is the time you want Light to be collected by the sensor.

then

Time =0 : Tessive fliter is Fully closed
: Reset sensor
Time =t1 : Fully open Tessive filter
Time =T + t1 : Fully shut Tessive filter
: Read sensor
Time =T + t1 + t2 : Wait until next Sensor reset before next frame.

=> This would remove the Rolling shutter completely.


[Guess] If not, the the 'skewed' motion trails luminescence should be suppressed by the number of ND stops used.

AJ
 
Perhaps this has been answered, but I am wondering what are the intrinsic limitations of using the "Red Motion Mount"? Other than a 1.3 stop loss of light, what are the other limitations involving shutter and framerate that will be particular to this mount?
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Perhaps this has been answered, but I am wondering what are the intrinsic limitations of using the "Red Motion Mount"? Other than a 1.3 stop loss of light, what are the other limitations involving shutter and framerate that will be particular to this mount?
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These are all assumptions based on the filter being similar to the Tessive filter:

1. You will still get shutter skew if you want 360 degree shutter. EG the filter needs to be completely black for a chunk of time (depending on sensor read-reset). This chunk of time may need to be quite a large proportion of the frame when you start getting to high fps.

2. It may (I'm not sure) act as a permanent polarizing filter. Polarizing filters aren't always desirable (affects skies when panning, affects the specular vs diffuse vs subsurface reflections of the human face)

3. If it's like the Tessive filter, it filters IR. Of course, 99% of the time you want IR filtered out, so that's good.

EDIT:

4. Doesn't fully, totally block out strobes?

5. Issues with wide angle lenses? (similar to a variable ND since it's the same principle)

6. Possibly other similar issues to a variable ND?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
Thanks Bruce! Long time no chat! :)

1. I wonder at which point the filter is usable in terms of HFR.
2. This is worrying. It would be nice if somebody from Red could address this point.
3. THis, in my books, is awesome.

Bruce Allen said:
These are all assumptions based on the filter being similar to the Tessive filter:

1. You will still get shutter skew if you want 360 degree shutter. EG the filter needs to be completely black for a chunk of time (depending on sensor read-reset). This chunk of time may need to be quite a large proportion of the frame when you start getting to high fps.

2. It may (I'm not sure) act as a permanent polarizing filter. Polarizing filters aren't always desirable (affects skies when panning, affects the specular vs diffuse vs subsurface reflections of the human face)

3. If it's like the Tessive filter, it filters IR. Of course, 99% of the time you want IR filtered out, so that's good.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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I think this may become a must-have in the kit... but maybe not permanently mounted... It will really come down to... is there any negative optical deterrents from using it all of the time (other than the light loss)... Certainly ANY piece of glass placed between the lens and the sensor has its own MTF characteristics... In this early stage of theorizing, I can imagine scenarios where I use the old mount, (extreme low-light scenes, for example) or if there is an appreciable loss of sharpness (maybe pull it off for a highly-detailed wide shot)...

All of this is just guess work at this stage though...
 
Just looked into this on the tessive site...heres his response to a rolling shutter FAQ

By the way, the Time Filter has many modes of operation, one of which is to create a simple 180 degree shutter. If you set your camera to 360 degrees, then the Time Filter to 180 degrees, it will totally eliminate rolling shutter without applying the antialiasing filter if you don't want that for a particular shot. Of course, in antialiasing mode, rolling shutter artifacts are eliminated also.

http://tessive.com/time-control-faq/

Just posting this as gospel...to correct my error of suggesting the opposite...
 
If the filter can be manually tunable by the characteristics of its fade curve, there might be another creative aesthetic tool available with this technology.
 
i just did an action short with the Epic, and while shooting some rifles shooting i notice that the muzzle flashes "some" came up like half, i did not get the full muzzle fire in some shots...because of the shutter angle....will this mount fix this problem?
 
I really want to know more about this.... didn't see it coming, love RED for shocking me again

this is serious stuff here boys, put your big boy boots on

the future is R3D
 
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