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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Sony's lawsuits against RED

Bruce Allen said:
I did not say malicious. I have said over-litigious. I'm sure Jim is aggressively doing what he believes is right. It just sucks for us.

Also, where have I ever criticized RED for suing ARRI in the Bravin case?

I'm really glad you like your Epic. That's not much of an argument though!

Just imagine if Cineform and Silicon Imaging had patented compressed raw... and then sued RED when they came out with the RED ONE.

Maybe you'd sitting here with your Silicon Imaging camera saying "boy how can you criticize them when they make such superior technology?"

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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I think I have to agree with Elsie on this one Bruce. I'm not sure we know enough to call Red's suit over-litigious. If Sony is in violation of the patent and causes financial harm to Red, is Red supposed to just say "Oh well..."

I think a lot of litigation is ill founded, but it's for the court to decide whether Red has crossed that line or not. It seems too easy to call it over-litigious when you are not the party suffering harm.

I think you have it right in your example. If Red had pilfered SI technology, they should be held accountable. Same rule applies here.
 
This looks like it will be a timing situation; who did what first.

I have noticed a pattern with Sony consumer equipment: SOMETHING goes wrong that requires repair approximately 13 months after the unit is first turned on.
I challenge any and all hackers to hack into the firmware of Sony consumer products to see if there are any lines of code that cause something to fail after the warranty expires.
If there is such code, prepare for the largest class action lawsuit in history.
 
Elsie N said:
Bruce, Hrvoje, I may be coming across as argumentative to each of you. In order to make amends, let me offer you a bit of information that I believe can be a life changer for all humanity... whether they be REDheads or SONY Godzillas.

You may have already seen it but if not, there is a show scheduled to re-run on PBS this Saturday at 7:00 PM locally titled "Eat, fast and live longer with Michael Mosley." I've seen it already, and that's why I think it is of the utmost importance for all my friends on Reduser as well as my real family to see it.

Specifically, the program has to do with a minor fasting regimen... two random days each week where one only consumes 500 calories (for women) and 600 calories (for men) during a 24 hour period and then you can eat anything you want the other 5 days of the week. Of course it is better if you eat healthy the other days of the week but in the program, they did not seem to think this was requisite to getting the health benefits.

What are those health benefits? One researcher flat out stated that by keeping IGF (Insulin-like Growth Factor) at a low level (and fasting in the manner described accomplishes this) in one year a person can eliminate stroke, diabetes, heart disease and cancer from being a cause of death. And apparently this is true for people with unhealthy habits (like smoking and drinking, for example) as much as for people who live a so-called healthy lifestyle.

The reason for this, they explained, is because higher levels of IGF means the body is constantly dividing cells and experiencing a high metabolic rate. This means the body has fewer resources available to repair DNA damage because it is pouring all its resources into creating new (damaged) cells through cell division. When the IGF levels come down, the body goes into a defensive mode and instead of creating new cells all the time, repairs the ones on hand without the need to constantly replace them.

If what I've stated above hasn't convinced you that this may be the MOST IMPORTANT HEALTH INFORMATION YOU WILL EVER LEARN!, then I've done a poor job of explaining. That's why you need to watch the program and tape it while you do and go back and watch it again whenever you find you may not be sticking to the regimen faithfully.

Oh by the way, I've been doing this for a few weeks now and I can already see the difference in the size of my belly (down to a 32 inch waist! '-) and have found that fasting for one day isn't as difficult as one might expect having done it a few times. Yesterday I took it a step further and ate nothing for a full 18 hours, then a can of chicken and rice soup and a few snacks. I'm going to forgo the 600 calorie allowable and do a full 24 hour fast eventually. I'm working on a few tricks to take my mind off the hunger. One that worked yesterday was getting my hoe and going to the garden to chop tumbleweeds. Staying busy and drinking water keeps the mind occupied and the belly satisfied.

Hope my sharing this information with you shows that there are no hard feelings vis a vis our disagreeing. '-)
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Elsie,

It looks as your user account has been hijacked by spambot after the first paragraph.


If that is not the case, thank you for the smile. Appreciated.
 
Bruce Allen said:
The camera industry is not just Sony and RED. And digital cameras are just getting started.

What is really sad is that this litigious environment RED has created through their actions discourages the NEXT innovative camera companies from getting started.

If the only people who can make cameras are those with deep enough pockets to handle RED suing them... that really sucks a lot for filmmakers who want to use innovative tools.

Think about the computer industry. Would it be awesome if it were just Apple and Microsoft fighting? No. It would suck. Having an industry controlled by litigious companies sucks. They need a Google to keep them honest. And let's face it - with all of this litigious nonsense, RED is looking to be more of a Microsoft than a Google.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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Bruce I know you are passionate about the recent litigiousness, and I don't question where you stand. I totally understand.

The only thing I don't find fair is your "equivalence" of RED to Sony, Microsoft, or Google. RED is still a very small company. They are not a fortune 500 company with the budget of a first world nation. They are still, to this day, a very successful upstart, small company.

They are not so different than the small companies you are championing.

Indeed, their litigious behavior and ambition may be the very reason they managed to succeed amongst much larger, better financed rivals.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
actually RED should sue sony again because of this...REDMOTE is the worst product ever it never works
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Sorry that it hasn't for you, but in the in the 2 years I have been working with the various Redmotes, never had a single issue, and always worked flawlessly and saved that day in more then one way.
 
Why do I feel that this thread may seem irrelevant within about 72 hours?

these things happen and "sometime", (quite some time) into the future this will be settled.

Until then, I have a great tool in my hands and no-one is going to tell me to destroy it. :)

its pretty simple.


David
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Sorry that it hasn't for you, but in the in the 2 years I have been working with the various Redmotes, never had a single issue, and always worked flawlessly and saved that day in more then one way.
Click to expand...

Same for me Ketch, but the comment was still hilarious.
 
Bruce Allen said:
...
Just imagine if Cineform and Silicon Imaging had patented compressed raw... and then sued RED when they came out with the RED ONE.

Maybe you'd sitting here with your Silicon Imaging camera saying "boy how can you criticize them when they make such superior technology?"

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...

I believe they can. As, FWIU, the US has been a first to invent not first to file country up until March of this year. And the change to first to file affects new inventions and patents only, it is not retroactive.
 
David Battistella said:
Why do I feel that this thread may seem irrelevant within about 72 hours?

these things happen and "sometime", (quite some time) into the future this will be settled.

Until then, I have a great tool in my hands and no-one is going to tell me to destroy it. :)

its pretty simple.


David
Click to expand...
Indeed, it is best not to be unduly concerned.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Sorry that it hasn't for you, but in the in the 2 years I have been working with the various Redmotes, never had a single issue, and always worked flawlessly and saved that day in more then one way.
Click to expand...

How can I put it: you're on the lucky side. Love our 3 Epics, love the concept of the Redmote but I've NEVER had a single day w/o any problems of the Redmode (when in use). With every single firmware and new antenna they can't get a steady connection. Not 1m apart, not even directly attatched to the right side of the cam.

It's a great intention with a poor implementation.
 
hehe yep, i never ever used a redmote which worked flawless, always losing connection or initial problems to get it connected. I think i have had more than 10 different ones in my hand, always problems, just doesn't work, i never use it.
 
Bruce... you have little to no knowledge of the history of the invention apparently. And while you certainly have the right to your opinion, patent and trademark laws are to protect all sorts of rights. If you come up with a unique story and a large company reads it and takes it from you, you just might find that you would have a change of heart. No one wants to donate their work. And asking me to talk about the history behind the scenes on this forum is not going to happen.

I love your work and your ideas, I just don't agree that everything ever created should automatically become public domain. That would discourage all creative thought and taking risks to produce.

Additionally, RED pays many companies royalties to use patented technology.

Jim

Bruce Allen said:
The camera industry is not just Sony and RED. And digital cameras are just getting started.

What is really sad is that this litigious environment RED has created through their actions discourages the NEXT innovative camera companies from getting started.

If the only people who can make cameras are those with deep enough pockets to handle RED suing them... that really sucks a lot for filmmakers who want to use innovative tools.

Think about the computer industry. Would it be awesome if it were just Apple and Microsoft fighting? No. It would suck. Having an industry controlled by litigious companies sucks. They need a Google to keep them honest. And let's face it - with all of this litigious nonsense, RED is looking to be more of a Microsoft than a Google.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Click to expand...
 
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The fact is that unless companies and individuals agressively fight to protect what they have created others will happily and easily claim it as theirs and profit from it for free. It sucks. Under the current system in the United States and most of the world a patent only protects your right to profit from your hard work if you have the financial strength to initiate and sustain lengthy fights with super giant corporations who think it's easier to take what others have created for themselves. I salute Red for fighting.
 
Im with Ketch on this. I have used my REDMOTE over and over again.. in side Deep Epic and from over 50 yards away in open ground and time and time again it has worked as described or better. Its hard for me to believe it was thought up by Sony with this kind of record. Or maybe the ones that don't work came from that technology :sarcasm:
KETCH ROSSi said:
Sorry that it hasn't for you, but in the in the 2 years I have been working with the various Redmotes, never had a single issue, and always worked flawlessly and saved that day in more then one way.
Click to expand...
 
It's usually the small companies with a lot of passion and dedication that innovate. It is hard and expensive for them to protect their IP. I know this because we have filed a patent for our integrated lens mount/housing technology. It cost a lot in R&D. And, it costs a lot to protect it. It is typically the large companies that lack progress and innovation and chose to play the bully instead. Having worked in Japan and being very familiar with Japanese culture where innovation is usually copied rather than initiated, I have a sense of what is going on here.

Has anybody seen Sony's filing? It would be interesting to see what it says.

I wish Jim and RED good luck with it.
 
Michael AvMen said:
There was a Time when You could Patent a Product, but only For a Limited time. Then it became Public domain so that the Public could improve and Evolve the product...
http://vimeo.com/14912890 This is Video 1, there are Four.... its Enlightning, Apple being the worst of them all when it comes to Copying others work, then suing when it gets copied. Shameless.
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Damn, I like those videos!. They tell the truth about everything. Good find.

My advice: License each other technologies and be in peace, and donate those millions you are going to spend in lawsuits and lawyers, to the 900 million people in the planet that lack the access of clean water.. (dreamer!).
 
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