4K for the finish...

[Kevin Wild]

I'd be more than happy to ditch a projector dream if RED was going to put out a 4k display. I hate to rain on the projector parade, but man they don't impress me unless in the perfect environment, which is rare. Bring on a 4K display RED. I'll put a deposit down now. ;-)

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

...I just want that projector. I do have the perfect environment.

And I'll take a 4K display, too. I want an 80" 4K under $8K. Make it so. ...That will happen on its own within the industry in less than 2 years anyway.

Oh, and anyone who paid attention to what was happening at CES could see this Netflix announcement from 2 lightyears away. Several companies announced 4K players being developed. I'll be shocked if Roku doesn't demo a 4K player at CES next year. And even more shocked if it isn't readily available and streaming Netflix in UHD/ 4K by Christmas 2014. I'm betting it will be under $300 too. Probably a lot less because we'll be seeing Netflix and other UHD/ 4K content options on a multitude of systems, including the upcoming PlayStation 4 and XBOX "720".

 

[Bruce Allen]

It's just awesome.

The same goofball from a major, high-profile, studio-owned post facility two years ago at HPA laughing at the very concept of 4K - this year at HPA is bragging out their facility being "all 4K."

It makes ZERO sense to master to 2K or HD today.

Agree with everything except for this.

There are plenty of reasons to master in HD and 2K today.

Tomorrow, sure, 4K.

But if it currently makes so much sense to master 4K, why did The Hobbit and Prometheus finish in 2K?

At the moment, 4K is bleeding edge and it costs more. Due to things like... everyone needs to buy 4K monitors to see what they are doing. Have you seen a cheap 4K monitor around TODAY?

It might well cost less to finish in HD or 2K now and go back and do 4K later. If necessary.

I think the argument for 4K would have more power if it were made with honesty, not hype.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Jarred Land]

Actually, reading between the lines, that *could* be RED code for 'an announcement that we've ditched the projector is coming'...?

I do hope not.

Mike

Nope not ditched.. but REDRAY took the priority position.

 

[Jarred Land]

But if it currently makes so much sense to master 4K, why did The Hobbit and Prometheus finish in 2K?

At the moment, 4K is bleeding edge and it costs more. Due to things like... everyone needs to buy 4K monitors to see what they are doing. Have you seen a cheap 4K monitor around TODAY?

We imported a Toshiba 4K 55" for just over $5000 about a month ago... from a normal retail store...does that count as cheap? Or do you mean cheaper?

And i get your point.. but ironically I would use different examples of the above 2 movies for your argument. Just because.

"Finishing" means something a bit different today than it did yesterday.

 

[Tai Wah Lim]

Nope not ditched.. but REDRAY took the priority position.

Not a commitment, any timeline?

 

[Steve Gibby]

The 30 terrabyte Red camera stock footage library of 4k (and 5k) footage I've shot since August 2007 seem to be positioned real well to cash in on this emerging demand for native 4k footage. We have the 4k footage - so come and get it networks and advertisers.

For us original early adopters and supporters of Red and their 4k push (me, Mark, Blair, Billy, Jeff, Ketch, Dino, David, Shawn, and so many others), there've been huge benefits - and they just keep on rolling along.

Thanks Red Team...its been a great ride ;-)))

 

[Jarred Land]

The 30 terrabyte Red camera stock footage library of 4k (and 5k) footage I've shot since August 2007 seem to be positioned real well to cash in on this emerging demand for native 4k footage.

Bingo..

 

[Raphael Varandas]

Nice!!!

 

[Jeremy Torrie]

I can say confidently I'm a true convert and ahead of the curve...we mastered my film Path Of Souls to 4K and have a 4K DCP that played last month in Berlin at the European Film Market. It looked...simply immense. So much detail and color.

I'm certainly looking for a way to monetize that 4K master now...but so far I haven't seen it.

 

[Bill Anderson]

The future looks more detailed at every RED announcement.

Great to hear that Odemax might still be a go. That is brilliant.

 

[Anderson Boyd]

Epic. I got in on NFLX at $15. Please go RED public so I can take the journey with y'all too.

 

[Phil Holland]

there've been huge benefits - and they just keep on rolling along.

Couldn't agree more on this point. All of my cinematography related income from last year came from projects I shot on Epic or Scarlet. I'm pretty much a Red exclusive shooter and don't mind saying that. I didn't have a chance to purchase a Red One back in the day, but I did use them a few times and certainly was an advocate (mostly because I was so damn excited)

There was a particular moment at a Red Day back in 2010 where I was more on board with the Red system. It was fresh off of a very frustrating couple weeks working with a DP who decided to go with a different camera for a large feature production. We shot some gorgeous test material and everybody was impressed by the projected material and how compared to the film we shot. I spent a few days "loving" that material and producing many variations on color passes and matched it to the film perfectly. Yet, for reasons I'll leave out, he went a different route with a much lesser 1080p camera. That was a pretty big moment. A moment where I had to ask what exactly we were all doing.

I remember standing at (back then) Renmar Studios and looking around the room. Seeing the cameras. Seeing the people. Talking to Jim and some other folks. Surely making an ass of myself

That's when I pretty much decided that I myself preferred to shoot on Red. There was certainly something much larger at play. And 4K was/is what I was after. Red was the only game in town and I wanted to play.

 

[Brian Merlen]

I really didn't expect 4k to take over as fast as it supposedly will. I was hopeful, but realistic. I guess I should roll more 4k on my Red asap...

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

It might well cost less to finish in HD or 2K now and go back and do 4K later. If necessary.

I think the argument for 4K would have more power if it were made with honesty, not hype.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Bruce -

I can HONESTLY tell you that doing a 4K render of your project from a resolution independent finishing solution - is almost ALWAYS cheaper than "do 4K later". This is not HYPE. It's a fact based on experience. If you don't have the ability to get your VFX and/or graphic delivered in 4K - that does present an issue - but the last several projects I worked on with various VFX vendors - nobody even blinked at 4K renders and several vendors did not even increases their bids for 4K delivery vs 2K.

It's a different world today than last year. There are several 4k projector and monitor solutions now that can be used in post that did not exist a year ago.

So, if you really think I'm full of hype and not honesty - I'm happy to get on the phone with you and start walking you through real-world, actual examples.

 

[Ces Peynetti]

Recently I was telling one of my clients that I was very excited that their wedding video was the first from our studio to be 100% finished in 4k. I don't think she had any idea what I was talking about, but I'm happy to think that their video is going to keep looking stunning by their 10th year anniversary.

(We were also able to pull at least 100 great looking still frames)

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Recently I was telling one of my clients that I was very excited that their wedding video was the first from our studio to be 100% finished in 4k. I don't think she had any idea what I was talking about, but I'm happy to think that their video is going to keep looking stunning by their 10th year anniversary.

(We were also able to pull at least 100 great looking still frames)

Most all my corporate clients are on the same page as this. They just LOOOVE that we can pull full quality stills right from the videos.


...VFX in 4K. Well, the shops that want to compete are doing it at 2K prices. I was technical director on an animation project last year, all story sequences and cut-scenes for an upcoming game that's destined for the PC and PS4. All delivered in 4K (UHD or QFHD 3840x2160 to be exact).


4K more expensive? Compared to what? It's dirt cheap today compared to what 1080p was less than 5 years ago. Easier to deal with, too.


I get my 32" 4K SHARP PN-K321 next week. Yay! ...so I'm told anyway, I still don't even have the final price/ invoice yet. LOL.

 

[Jarred Land]

I really didn't expect 4k to take over as fast as it supposedly will. I was hopeful, but realistic. I guess I should roll more 4k on my Red asap...

Heh heh we were wondering what was taking so long

Some great stories being told here... thanks for sharing.

 

[M Most]

...VFX in 4K. Well, the shops that want to compete are doing it at 2K prices. .

Well if that's true, then VFX companies are apparently even more anxious to go broke than those that already have.

 

[Phil Holland]

I've been helping a couple VFX studios migrate and adjust to 4K pipelines. Luckily the bigger houses at a minimum were often working with 4K or 6K scans. Some projects that were even finished at 2K sometimes had 4K work done for one reason or another. There's certainly disk space costs, render time, and "ass in chair" hours that are a concern. It's actually easier than ever to make 4K happen within a studio.

I was completely and utterly spoiled by the time I started in the industry because we had a 4K scanner and laser recorders. And let me tell you, a 19 year old with 4K at my disposal so early on, it made me question why we were working in 2K at all. And in fact, when we went back out via laser recorder we had several different upscale and sharpen algorithms that created a 4K from 2K image. Not a great idea, but it was tough working on uncompressed images back then at 2K. Disk space really wasn't cheap a decade ago. I think when I started at that studio there was only a few TB inside the house. Last time I visited I think it was well over 400TB studio wide. It was something that happened because the hardware limitations at the time. Realtime 2K playback was pretty darn expensive too at the time.

There's a reason those first S35 scanners were 4K though. And that's really why I'm a Red shooter. That's also why I'm really excited about Dragon both from a resolution and dynamic range perspective.