4K Televisions

[Phil Holland]

Now ... for the good part: They are already on sale! A whole $3,000.00 off the list price. You can get you very own 84" LG panel today (they have them in stock) for a mere $16,999.99! (I brought my wife along, and while she was impressed ... she also had the check book .... so I guess you have figutred it out ... there is no 4K panel in my immediate future.)

That LG panel is really nice and thin. Don't worry. These bad boys are going to come down in price drastically. Especially in the 46"-60" realm once the models start hitting the floor. Between April-September 2013 we're going to see many levels of 4K displays. Both in price and quality.

 

[Sergio Perez]

Having seen the same discussed LG display with the same 4K demo footage, I can safely say that it will make a huge difference in displays at least of 42" size. I've never seen anything like this in 1080p on a 42" monitor. If the 4K 42" models can keep the detail I've seen in the 84", its a no brainer. With the right content, it will sell way better than 3D technology...

 

[Wayne Morellini]

There have been some interesting studies and we've talked about them on this board before. But from a more "butt in chair" opinion....

Between NAB 2012 and today I've now seen my work on 14 different 4K displays not including projectors. Those ranged from 36 inches to about 12 feet. I have to say when you see it in person it's pretty wonderful.

I'll have some more footage used for demoing new screens early next year too. I can't wait.

What people don't realise, is that the 2400dpi vision part of vision is only a small spot in the center, but your eye flits it around a scene taking uuhd samples ten tines or so a second. It is this sampling that collects your detail. If you get somebody to concentrate in a screen and not scan it, you probably are not going to notice much. Probably most people can't tell that they are breathing air or carbon dioxide, but can feel the difference.

For everybody. A way to improve your vision:

If people are concentrating on the wrong part of their vision they see less detail than the 2400dpi spot. This can be corrected, by examining detail pattern, cotton clothing threads, for example, find where it is best and concentrate on using that as the center of vision (unless it is physically too far off center). I read a few books on improving your eyesight without glasses, and recently had a thread that mentioned nutritional factors. In the vision industry we should all be trying this.


Thanks

Wayne.

which you can correct by looking for it and concentrating on it.

 

[Phil Holland]

This can be corrected, by examining detail pattern, cotton clothing threads, for example, find where it is best and concentrate on using that as the center of vision (unless it is physically too far off center). I read a few books on improving your eyesight without glasses, and recently had a thread that mentioned nutritional factors. In the vision industry we should all be trying this.

I had laser eye surgery when I was 20 (33 now), but I have explored dietary habits and sleeping options. For whatever reason my vision does some odd things here and there. I find that if I'm tired or somewhat stressed my ability to resolve things at great distances is impaired. However, sometimes I can see details on the trees up in the mountains. It's weird I haven't put my finger on it. I'm fairly healthy don't have any substance related impairments.

Another interesting thing I noticed years ago is my individual eyes perceive color very slightly differently. I stumbled across that years ago looking through a loop on a light box. Considering at the time my business was color I was concerned. It's very slight, but there is a difference. Eye doctor says I'm normal. I favor my dominant eye for color work and matching though. Just weird.

 

[Brad Allen]

Another interesting thing I noticed years ago is my individual eyes perceive color very slightly differently. I stumbled across that years ago looking through a loop on a light box. Considering at the time my business was color I was concerned. It's very slight, but there is a difference. Eye doctor says I'm normal. I favor my dominant eye for color work and matching though. Just weird.

Ha ha, I always thought that was normal Phil! Maybe I fooled myself

I'm definitely warmer in my left eye. Same for you?

 

[Phil Holland]

Ha ha, I always thought that was normal Phil! Maybe I fooled myself

I'm definitely warmer in my left eye. Same for you?

Oh interesting. Just the opposite. My right seems to be more "natural" and the left has a cooler feel to it.

 

[Chase M. Wrenn]

Ha ha, I always thought that was normal Phil! Maybe I fooled myself

I'm definitely warmer in my left eye. Same for you?

I'm the same, warmer in the left. Weird...

 

[AndreasOberg]

I sit less than a meter away from my flame screen... So for me a small 4k screen would be gold worth. As it is now I need to zoom in to the frame to see pixels 1:1 or look at a real time down sample versions of the imagery. So I think first users will be people working with images, and there is quite a few of us, especially as you need to count the still picture guys as well. Also for editing, people maybe do not want to work in 4k but who does not want to have two HD frames side by side and such. Those image people will probably be the first users. I also think the gaming industry will jump at 4k quite soon. A little bit later youtube, vimeo and all other video streamers will, just as RED, provide good 4k streaming and downloads. It's all ready very much happening right now, just take a look at Ketch skydiving film. It's been clicked quite a few times on youtube and I do not think it's due to it's content as much as to it's picture qualities. People like to watch stuff at good quality, just look at apple. Now they are showing their film trailers in HD, but as soon as they release next generation of computer screens... Well, then I think it will be 4k cinema displays, when that happens, the shit will definitely hit the fan.

Hiya Björn. Just a quick comment about games. I'm following the industry quite closely and I don't think we are going to see at least console games with 4k resolution anytime soon. The current consoles often struggle playing the games in 720p resolution so jumping to the MUCH more expensive 4k resolution will take a while. Maybe 10 years I'm afraid for the big consoles.

But yes, please a 4k projector and 2 4k monitors for my desktop right now!

/Andreas

 

[Brandon J.F.]

Hiya Björn. Just a quick comment about games. I'm following the industry quite closely and I don't think we are going to see at least console games with 4k resolution anytime soon. The current consoles often struggle playing the games in 720p resolution so jumping to the MUCH more expensive 4k resolution will take a while. Maybe 10 years I'm afraid for the big consoles.

May take awhile for game manufacturers to catch up, but Sony Playstation 4 looks to be 4k ready out the gate:

Sony’s PlayStation 4 to support 4K resolution

By Jonathan S. Geller | BGR News – Wed, Aug 22, 2012

Sony’s (SNY) plan to introduce an 80-inch XBR LED television set with 4K resolution is said to be the start of a larger scheme to push 4K on consumers, much like 3D was a huge push in the industry a couple of years ago. Since 3D isn’t gaining much traction, Sony (and we’d assume the rest of the industry) is betting on 4K as a way to get consumers to upgrade their home entertainment devices. Sony is already selling 4K Blu-ray players for $200, and the company’s next-generation PlayStation 4 will indeed support 4K resolution playback as well, a source tells us. Like the PlayStation 3 did with Blu-ray, Sony is betting that by including the ability to support 4K resolution media — games and movies — consumers will have an incentive to upgrade to new 4K television sets.

http://news.yahoo.com/sony-playstation-4-support-4k-resolution-161003188.html

 

[Phil Holland]

May take awhile for game manufacturers to catch up, but Sony Playstation 4 looks to be 4k ready out the gate:

Sony's a given because they have now pretty much spilled the beans that 4K is where all of their product lines are going. That I'm happy about. I don't think it will just be Sony on the gaming front. I think we'll see announcements of 3 4K capable gaming "consoles" this year. 2 we expect, 1 that's a bit of an x-factor. We'll at a minimum see 4K gaming demos this year of first generation titles. Whether we actually get new gaming hardware before the year is out or not, it's just too early to tell.

The combination of what's been learned and developed from this round of 3rd generation titles and the additional resolution of 4K gaming makes my mind boggle a bit. We're going to see some tremendous interactive entertainment very soon.

I'm wondering at the moment how 4K is going to effect the modern computer user in particular (and perhaps when). We'll see those 32-36" monitors and that will be amazing, new video cards are on the way too. But when will we see the 19" and 20" high density laptops? I'm guessing next year sometime, 3rd/4th quarter.

Thinking about the web in 4K is also an interesting topic as well.

 

[Paul Gotham]

i dont see the purpose of using 4k on an LCD unless its a really big screen. definitely not 50"-70" TVs though. more like for 100" TVs, which we arent using yet.

 

[Tom Wardrop]

I don't think anyone can assume when and where 4k would be useful, as everyone's use cases are different. I have a really pokey TV area where each couch is 2.3m at its farthest point away. I'm about to buy a 55" TV today so I can fully appreciate 1080p, but I know there'd be a discernible difference between 1080p and 4k even with that screen size at the distance I'll be sitting. The truth is though, if 4k screens were available for a reasonable price, I'd be getting more like 65" 4k TV for this room, which would definitely benefit from 4k. Saying that, obviously not everyone will benefit from 4k, but a lot of people will appreciate the difference, and it's clear that 1080p isn't the end of the road. Though it does seem to appear anything beyond 4k would demand a field of view impractical even in most cinemas, unless you're one of those people who likes to sit right up the front in a theatre. I think 8k acquisition and 4k distribution will be the sweet spot that'll hang around for a very long time, but it's clear that 1080p certainly isn't enough resolution to achieve an optimal field of view of about 40 degrees.

1080p TV's will continue to hang around for a long time, especially for smaller TV's, just like 720p and the likes are still available today.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

40 to 50" 4K Planar Monitor at the RED BOOTH last year showing TIMESCAPES was absolutely jaw dropping compared to 1080P ... so there is that first hand experience with 4K.

and yes the larger 4K monitors were equally outstanding even at shorter distances... again I simply witnessed first hand at the Red 4K party at the Tropicana but wtf do i know?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm getting fed info about 4K panels at CES next week... I don't think there's a mainstream manufacturer who will not show a 4K/UHD panel. Even APEX and VIZIO have them.

Street price on the LG is just under $17K, which is right at double the price of their identically sized and featured 1080p model. Prices will indeed fall quickly. I know of three manufacturers that are going to come out swinging with their offerings this year. Watch for Sharp and Planar. The latter of which had a 55" and 65" 4K sets last year, had one in the RED booth and the BandPro booth at NAB 2012 showing TimeScapes footage. I believe they were also present at the 4K REDFEST thing at NAB.I know the new pricing on the 2013 version of those panels and I'm not allowed to say yet, but it's very palatable. The LG 84" seems rather expensive by comparison. Most of the 4K panels hitting the market this year in North America are large displays though -- targeted at the high end early adopter types. That demographic doesn't usually buy anything under 60" in size these days. At least not for their primary setup for watching movies and sports.

 

[Michael McLaughlin]

And so it begins...

And so it begins...

Under the "Deals" section (hahahaha) of a lot of websites like PC Perspective, Tom's Hardware etc.
(check about halfway down under entertainment).

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-T...5-1080p-Core-i7-Laptop-w-2GB-Radeon-HD-7730M-



http://www.crutchfield.com/p_68984L9600/LG-84LM9600.html?tp=35945


$16,999... well thats better than $40,000 or more.

 

[Bob Gundu]

$13999 here:

http://www.neobits.com/lg_electronics_84lm9600_84_led_4k_3d_smart_tv_p4475699.html?atc=gbs


Edit: Here is what a quick search pulled up:

https://www.google.com/shopping/pro...a=X&ei=mbTnUM3wKe3U0gH9rIHIBA&ved=0CEIQgggwAA

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

WOW! Such-a-deal. That is under the $16,999.99 price that I saw just last weekend. I can't wait to see what will be shown at CES and I can only imagine what the prices will be by this Spring or Summer. (As I previously predicted, in jest, that 84" LG panel will probably be offered by Overstock.com a lot sooner than I thought.)

__________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If that $13K price on the LG is real and not a grey-market unit, then that bodes well for future pricing later this year.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

I had laser eye surgery when I was 20 (33 now), but I have explored dietary habits and sleeping options. For whatever reason my vision does some odd things here and there. I find that if I'm tired or somewhat stressed my ability to resolve things at great distances is impaired. However, sometimes I can see details on the trees up in the mountains. It's weird I haven't put my finger on it. I'm fairly healthy don't have any substance related impairments.

Another interesting thing I noticed years ago is my individual eyes perceive color very slightly differently. I stumbled across that years ago looking through a loop on a light box. Considering at the time my business was color I was concerned. It's very slight, but there is a difference. Eye doctor says I'm normal. I favor my dominant eye for color work and matching though. Just weird.

Yeah, had a few strange issues come up, people with MS also get these issues and others when something touches the optic nerve. There are a number of diseases with MS like symptoms, just different causes and parts of the brain it touches, but simply immune system antibodies attacking myelin sheaths on your neurons leading to eventual 100:1 performance drops and death of the neuron. The antibodies get in there when a bad enough infection allows them to breach the blood brain barrier, and they setup shop. People have been reporting they are finding these infections in the sheaths, causing them to be attacked, but also there is thought to be other things that can set the immune system off to see the myelin as a target. So, this could be a lot more common than people think, just they don't get it very bad. Either way, the myelin repair stuff is kick ass, as it can kick even healthy people that are not 100:1 into top gear I think. If you look up my other threads I link to lists of things that help the eye.

If it is a fine double vision, then I think that was the optic nerve, but it could be focus. Stuff that helps MS suffers with vision through remylination helps with various things, and maybe with focus.

I have the color difference between eyes too.

 

[Wayne Morellini]

Hiya Björn. Just a quick comment about games. I'm following the industry quite closely and I don't think we are going to see at least console games with 4k resolution anytime soon. The current consoles often struggle playing the games in 720p resolution so jumping to the MUCH more expensive 4k resolution will take a while. Maybe 10 years I'm afraid for the big consoles.

But yes, please a 4k projector and 2 4k monitors for my desktop right now!

/Andreas

It has a lot to do with the processing behind the scenes rather than the resolution itself. With resolution, you have to calculate the 3d detail of pixels, but this is only one part of the graphics processing. You calculate a lot on objects and manipulating them before you do the final part that hardware can handle mostly, then there is the game engine physics and air etc. If you look at a old game like pacman though, even a smart phone might be able to render that on a 30k Res screen. I was once planning on designing a play station beating console design, still might, but now even the latest I series computers have integrated graphics options that support multiple 4k displays.


Somebody asked what use for 4k+ , have a look here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...able-project&p=1126707&highlight=#post1126707

20k would be use full for this. Going to be updating it soon.


Interesting thing is Sony is researching 16k+ cameras for holographic imaging. My 3d camera technique years ago, as an alternative to lytro, in an odd way, achieves the same thing through regular resolutions. I've recently finally also come up with a good workable method for holographic display. This solves a few problems they have been having with holo dispkays. Looks like I was not so far off what I was designing previously, now I've just had another idea that works in with something else I was designing.

In reality, I might have to go for a 4k monitor instead of TV for now. My ill health and expenses have drained my budget.