Nikon Mount vs. Canon Mount

[Andy Roberts]

I'm trying to decide between investing in Canon L lenses or Nikon G lenses. I thought I read on the site somewhere that the Epic interacts with Canon lenses differently than Nikon lenses, in terms of either meta data captured or actual capability with auto focus and aperture control. Maybe I misread but I can't find that post. SO if anyone knows the answer to that, I'd sure appreciate it. Secondly, but related, if I was shooting with a shoulder rig, is there some accessory that I can keep close to my right hand that will trigger AF for these electronic lenses? Thanks.

 

[Nick Burridge]

I think the only difference between the mounts is that Canon lenses contain their own focus motors, whereas Nikon lenses use a motor in the mount, so RED was able to build their own/tweak it to suit video work slightly better. That said, I've yet to get my hands on a Nikon mount to try that out.

You *should* be able to key map any button to trigger AF, which would apply to GPIO closure as well if you wanted to set up some kind of external trigger, but our Epic is out on a job right now so can't check that.

 

[Eric R.]

Nikon G lenses contain their own focus motors.

 

[Andrew Gentle]

Yeah, it's aperture that you're thinking of which is articulated from the mount for Nikon lenses.
Some Nikon mounts have a focus motor coupling but the RED one doesn't, you'll have to focus lenses which don't have in built motors manually.

 

[Lee Saxon]

Some Nikon mounts have a focus motor coupling but the RED one doesn't, you'll have to focus lenses which don't have in built motors manually.

Really? I thought the whole reason the Nikon mount took so much longer and was so much more complex is the screw-drive motor for pre-AF-S lenses!

 

[Andy Roberts]

from the Red store: The DSMC TITANIUM NIKON MOUNT is the most durable solution for using Nikon AF-S and AF-D lenses with your DSMC brain. Constructed of machined titanium, this mount is distinguished by its robust and lightweight design. Autofocus and electronic iris control works seamlessly with select Nikon lenses to ensure full-feature compatibility.



Autofocus support available for select AF-S lenses
Electronic iris control available for select AF-S and AF-D lenses
Touch focus enabled for select lenses
No backfocus adjustments necessary when switching mounts
Machined titanium

Auto focus and iris functions are supported
electronically when used with a RED DSMC
NIKON MOUNT.

• AF-S Nikkor 24mm f/1.4 G ED
• AF-S Nikkor 35mm f/1.4 G
• AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 G
• AF-S Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8 G ED
• AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 G
• AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8 G ED
• AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED
• AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 G II ED VR

Auto Focus is not supported for the lenses
listed below. They must be focused manually.

• AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D
• AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D
• AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.4D IF

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

Nikon G lenses contain their own focus motors.

I have both mounts. Just got back from a 3 week gig in Italy and we used Nikon 14-24 & 24-70 G zooms. (Really good zooms.) All I can say is that they worked flawlessly. I don't have any Canon L lenses (just a Tokina-w-a Canon mount) but I use my various Zeiss lenses-w-adapters on the Canon mount ... but obviously they are all MF. No complaints with the Nikon G's that I used.



___________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Andy Roberts]

I remember Jarred showing off a two-touch rack focus capability... a certain mannequin in a jail cell was the "scene" I believe.. I assume that isn't out yet, but I hope it can be used with the Canon mount. I suppose that would've been a Canon mount he was experimenting with.

Nick, in what way would Red's motor tweaks help video more? Sorry to ask dumb questions. For the last year I've only experimented with PL and was just having a hard time quickly hitting focus.

 

[Andy Roberts]

At this point I'm leaning towards Canon...
EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM
EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM
EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
and I already have the latest 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM
If there are any other MUST HAVES, I'm all ears.

Thanks guys for the input. Buying decisions are hard when it is this much money (though much cheaper than cine lenses)

 

[Nick Burridge]

Really? I thought the whole reason the Nikon mount took so much longer and was so much more complex is the screw-drive motor for pre-AF-S lenses!

That was my impression back in the days it was being developed, but looking at the list of autofocus-supported lenses that doesn't seem to be the case... and the only old post from Jared I could dig up points to an iris motor only not a lens motor. Could have sworn they were doing a focus motor too but that might have been back in the day of the fixed-lens Scarlet. Or I'm finally going crazy.

The Nikon mount as most of you know has been a bit tricky as Nikon requires actual motors in the mount where Canon has the motors in the lenses.

Anyways... here you go.. first look at the DSMC Nikon Mount in action.. Here is the Iris control "dampened" mode that takes out the click click click shifts you sometimes see in iris pulls. Since we make the motors.. we can make it pretty damn smooth.

But there you go Andy - de-clicked iris changes seems to be about the only difference between the 2 mounts, so it really comes down to personal preference on glass.

 

[Peter Moretti]

I have both mounts. Just got back from a 3 week gig in Italy and we used Nikon 14-24 & 24-70 G zooms. (Really good zooms.) All I can say is that they worked flawlessly. I don't have any Canon L lenses (just a Tokina-w-a Canon mount) but I use my various Zeiss lenses-w-adapters on the Canon mount ... but obviously they are all MF. No complaints with the Nikon G's that I used.



___________________________________
Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

Bill, can you describe a little bit more how the Nkon G zooms worked?

Did they auto focus? How were you able to manual control the focus? How about controlling the irs?

Thanks very mcuh!

 

[Andy Roberts]

de-clicked iris changes seems to be about the only difference between the 2 mounts, so it really comes down to personal preference on glass.

Nick, so an iris pull would be used to blow out to white or fade to black in camera? Something creative like that?

 

[Paul Toth]

Nick, so an iris pull would be used to blow out to white or fade to black in camera? Something creative like that?

Yes as well as going from a darkly lit area to a brightly lit area (and vice versa)

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

Bill, can you describe a little bit more how the Nkon G zooms worked?

Did they auto focus? How were you able to manual control the focus? How about controlling the irs?

(1): Yes
(2): The G lenses have a switch on the barrel ... M/A (manual-auto focus) and M (manual). I just left it set to MA. When I wanted to manual focus I just went into the camera's menus and set focusing to manual and the lens would act as a manual focus lens. Honestly, I used auto focus about 80% of the time.
(3): Iris adjustment was electronic through the side handle.

Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Andy Roberts]

Thanks Nick and Paul, that's helpful. So if I go with Canon, it sounds like a smooth pull won't really be possible but for the type of shooting I want to do, I don't think it will come up much.

 

[Mark Phelan]

Thanks Nick and Paul, that's helpful. So if I go with Canon, it sounds like a smooth pull won't really be possible but for the type of shooting I want to do, I don't think it will come up much.

Maybe not yet, but down the road I think it will be possible, either via Redmote Pro or third party.

 

[Peter Moretti]

Bill, that's great. It's like you've got yourself a nice set of Pancho zooms for the price of Nikon still glass. (I KNOW the mechanics of Panchro's are way better .

 

[Bill Sepaniak]

Bill, that's great. It's like you've got yourself a nice set of Pancho zooms for the price of Nikon still glass. (I KNOW the mechanics of Panchro's are way better .

No doubt, the mechanics in the Panchro's are WAY better. But .... at a price. As you know, I'm sure, the front element of the 24-70 extends and retracts about 4mm when zooming, making it somewhat difficult to use a mattebox (the elements in 14-24 do not extend / retract). Because of that, I used a 82mm Heliopan vario ND-w- a step-up ring and a wide angle rubber lens hood on the 24-70. I imported the Heliopan from Germany, since the ones they send to the US do not have front threads. It worked great and I haven't seen any weird color shifts. (And, the price in Germany is about 1/2 of what B&H charges for the thread-less version.) On the 14-24, Fotodiox has come out with a lens hood - front filter solution. The front filters are huge .... 140mm! They sell 140mm ND's and I got several and they worked well. It was ideal for the quick set-up / run-n-gun stuff that we were shooting.

Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”

Zeiss Lenses:

CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0

Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8

Tokina Lenses:

11-16/2.8

 

[Shanon Fernald]

No doubt, the mechanics in the Panchro's are WAY better. But .... at a price. As you know, I'm sure, the front element of the 24-70 extends and retracts about 4mm when zooming, making it somewhat difficult to use a mattebox (the elements in 14-24 do not extend / retract). Because of that, I used a 82mm Heliopan vario ND-w- a step-up ring and a wide angle rubber lens hood on the 24-70. I imported the Heliopan from Germany, since the ones they send to the US do not have front threads. It worked great and I haven't seen any weird color shifts. (And, the price in Germany is about 1/2 of what B&H charges for the thread-less version.) On the 14-24, Fotodiox has come out with a lens hood - front filter solution. The front filters are huge .... 140mm! They sell 140mm ND's and I got several and they worked well. It was ideal for the quick set-up / run-n-gun stuff that we were shooting.


Scarlet X # 1859 “Bettie Page”
“… preparing to ‘whip’ the competition …”


Zeiss Lenses:


CY 21/2.8
ZF 28/2.0
CY 35-70/3.4
CY 50/1.4
ZF100/2.0


Nikon Lenses:
G 14-24/2.8
G 24-70/2.8
D 80-200/2.8


Tokina Lenses:


11-16/2.8

Wow, this is similar to the setup I am trying to get up and running.

does the nikon mount work well for you?

i have the zf.2 25mm, zf.2 50mm, zf.2 100mm and the nikon 12-24mm. I have the helipan 82 (with stepups) but its the us version so there's no front filter. I also have a really nice polarizer 82, a graduated nd 82 and a flat .9 nd 82. So I should have some options to mix and match.

do you like the fotodiox for the 12-24? Is bh a good place to buy that?

I am planning to record at 4k. That's 1.6 crop. Do you think I'll be able to use my zf.2 100 for my close up dialogue shots?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

Something to consider

Something to consider

Thanks Nick and Paul, that's helpful. So if I go with Canon, it sounds like a smooth pull won't really be possible but for the type of shooting I want to do, I don't think it will come up much.

Here you go-maybe that will help your decision:
First Professional AC grade EFF (Electronic Follow Focus) for Canon EF lenses. Nikon support coming..
Canon ProLock-i with full out Pro FF/Iris control - OptiTron
-professional system that uses internal motors and electronics in Canon lenses for iris and focus control
-positive locking, PL style mount for standard unmodified Canon EF mounted lenses.
- intelligent mount recognizes all conceivable Canon EF mounted lenses
- direct replacement for Red DSMC base mount.
- fully supports IS on lenses so equipped.
-OptiTron automatically remaps the tiny focus travel on the lens focus ring to 300 deg rotation on the knob.
-one button remapping for even more precision with custom focus in/out points
- wireless ready for the upcoming receiver.
- removable, replaceable long life battery (approx. 2 day continuous operation )
- backlit, easily removable marking disc
- adjustable tension (drag) for the focus knob.
and more.....
Check out the video link for more info. http://vimeo.com/53152033
More details here http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?87950-The-Future-of-Follow-Focus-Now-Optitron-by-OptiTek