Attitude adjustment...

[AndrewThomas]

Because majority of movies in theaters right now are 3d. Which RED is better at.

More bigger blockbusters? The Avengers.. Well, that argument is over.

Professionals are just now adopting RED. ARRI has been the standard forever. Now people are breaking the mold and going to RED. I don't understand how you don't get that.

Steven Soderbergh was an early adopter and so was Peter Jackson. David Fincher has been into digital since Zodiac, so of course it was the next step. James Cameron is all about 3D, so Epics are perfect choices for him. And the rest of those people you named, probably shot RED with a huge part of it due to how well it shoots 3D.

You can not deny that the industry standard has been ARRI for a long time.

You are just flat out wrong about Red finally being adopted in professional circles. I don't mean to be thought rude, but did you really just get in to the history of Red when you bought your Scarlet? Alexa is definitely a hot pick for camera use in 2012, but so is Epic. I expect to see a lot of productions on the F65 and whatever Panavision drops next year. These things are cyclical. When Red releases the Dragon sensor Epic, I'm sure a lot of DPs will want to give it a spin. And then Arri will come out with their 4K Alexa and that will be the new hotness that the industry is all about. This cycle will continue to repeat year after year for the foreseeable future.

But yeah, Red has been at the professional table for years now.

 

[Michael Millichamp]

You are just flat out wrong about Red finally being adopted in professional circles. I don't mean to be thought rude, but did you really just get in to the history of Red when you bought your Scarlet? Alexa is definitely a hot pick for camera use in 2012, but so is Epic. I expect to see a lot of productions on the F65 and whatever Panavision drops next year. These things are cyclical. When Red releases the Dragon sensor Epic, I'm sure a lot of DPs will want to give it a spin. And then Arri will come out with their 4K Alexa and that will be the new hotness that the industry is all about. This cycle will continue to repeat year after year for the foreseeable future.

But yeah, Red has been at the professional table for years now.

Yes, I just got into RED history when I bought my Scarlet... Had no idea who they were and what they did, but hey! let's spend money!.....

Come on. RED is within a small circle of professionals. They aren't the camera of choice 2012, nor were they in 2011 or 2010. In 2012 they started become more adopted by people in the cinema industry thanks to Prometheus and GWTDT.

Everyone used to bash RED because of the workflow saying it wasn't practical for commercials or indies.

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Maybe this will make it more concrete for people as to what the difference here exactly is.

If you had $38K to invest in RED
Buy an EPIC ~31 days ago : get an EPIC-X brain
Buy an EPIC today : get an EPIC-X brain + FREE MEIZLER MODULE + FREE 17-50mm RED ZOOM!!!

And that's the difference. And for no reason other than you hesitated to invest in RED!

This allows the NEW entrants the ability to compete with ALEXA. And the Stage 4 peeps, well, we have to come up with atleast 13K more to play.

Disruptive pricing indeed. I don't have a problem with it, but lets all get on the same page as to what we are really comparing here.

(don't hold me to the numbers. I already don't remember what the EPIC used to cost. And I don't care. But hopefully, you get the idea)

 

[AndrewThomas]

Yes, I just got into RED history when I bought my Scarlet... Had no idea who they were and what they did, but hey! let's spend money!.....

Come on. RED is within a small circle of professionals. They aren't the camera of choice 2012, nor were they in 2011 or 2010. In 2012 they started become more adopted by people in the cinema industry thanks to Prometheus and GWTDT.

Everyone used to bash RED because of the workflow saying it wasn't practical for commercials or indies.

There were more features shot on R1 than Arri digital cams going into to 2012. The D21 never had the presence in features that the R1 did. The Alexa caught on big in 2011 productions going into 2012, thought many mid-to-late 2012 productions have been on Epic. You are just factually wrong.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

Read the first post

Dragon sensor upgrade is not included for any EPIC system purchased at the new pricing going forward. It will be a $6K upgrade.

I did read the first post, but you didn't read mine very carefully. I asked about cameras purchased BEFORE the price cut.

M

 

[PatrickFaith]

When it's all said and done, this really isn't going to effect any of my short terms plans (i.e. right now i'm waiting forever on some modo/realflow simulations which btw are running at only 2k). From random emails i get, my guess is epic rentals will increase over the short term (if epics/scarlets are sitting on shelf a lot that's a net month increase). So things will probably even out in a month or two of rentals(especially with not having the f55's available till sometime in 2013). With this big of correction, it's really impossible to foresee the economic impacts (and worrying just increases opportunity cost). So I'm just going on as if nothing happened and revisit the real effects of these changes in January [my gut feel is this will have a minimal short term impact to the current reduser base as far is these next two months cash flow, with an extremely positive uptake in the long term, but who knows].

 

[Michael Vera]

Peter... I am not really so smart. We try really hard to put ourselves in the position of our customer and weigh that along with our situation and the state of the market.

We make the best call we can given everything we know.

Some will be happy. Some will not. But it isn't for the lack of us trying.

I love this industry and have a special affinity to the young and up coming shooters. We try so hard to make everything work. But there is no magic wand except making the best camera we can and selling it for the best price we can given our costs.

This is easy stuff to understand but difficult to execute.

Jim

Mind Blown

Wow, Thanks Jim!

What a awesome price adjustment. I am now closer to pulling the trigger on a Scarlet then I have ever been. As a "young shooter" this just shows how great of a company RED is, not profiteering, just one-uping competition.

RED fan for life!

 

[Zack Birlew]

The pricing changes blew me away! I expected maybe $30K and just the Epic getting changes but for everything to decrease so much was simply incredible! The RED One MX being $4,000 takes the cake though (despite being EOL).

I wish that I could get one right now but with my current project under way I simply can't afford it at this time. Maybe if my fellow Redusers banded together and made enough purchases from my Pond5 stock media page I can get an MX, thus finally becoming a RED owner, and they can get some interesting royalty free stock material for their projects! Well, one can dream.

 

[Morris Bossers]

Dear customer:
The product you like to buy will be literally worthless within a few months.
If you buy now, you will thus lose over tens of thousands of dollars.
Any product you buy from us won't devaluate over time: we as a company will make it devaluate overnight !
Your clients won't hire your product for the amount you originally calculated, so your product won't take the normal three years to break even, but about 10 years.
Errr... hang on: ten years ? I'm sorry...: of course you aren't able to use this product for ten years: it will be worthless within a few months.

But, dear customer: that's GOOD news !!!
It means that anyone.... (did you get that: ANYONE) can afford the product you're looking at within a few months !
They won't have to hire the product from your company ! Isn't that great ?!?
Don't worry; if you're clients are stupid enough to buy from us, we'll screw them over the same way we'll do you !
We'll make them pay thousands of dollars for upgrades and than...... drop the prices !!! That'll show them
What's that you say ? You won't buy from us ??
But it's a great product ?!
You "don't like losing that amount of money and clients" ?!?
But it's a great product ???
Haven't you heard that other companies do the same ?
Whenever a company brings out a new product, the former product is devaluated.
Ermmm: No we don't have a revolutionary new product per se... we just thought it would be neat to start devaluating our products anyway...
As we told you: any one will be able to afford our products, which is a great thing !!
What's that ? "If this is our long term business model, every one will be able to buy our products, but in the end no one will want to anymore?"
Damn. You might have a point...
But what if we.... just lower the prices ??!!??

Now listen, dear customer, you're starting to annoy me a bit. Look at it from our perspective; our competitors have cheap products too !!
What do you mean with "we started that"?!?
Well: they keep up with us, we keep up with them, they keep up with us, we keep up with them, they keep up with us, we.., well you get the idea...
No, You don't have to worry about us: at this moment we are a rich company and we'll still be able to do service, support, research and development.
We'll keep bringing out amazing products for even lower prices. In fact, we have some ideas for products that are much better than the product you're currently looking at !
They will be a lot cheaper than the product you're holding now !
So can I take your credit card details ?

Err... where did he go ?

 

[Brian Merlen]

I am not going anywhere man. I mean the Dragon upgrade is dirt cheap, those looking to sell their now "depreciated" products are stupid, at least sell it as a dragon or a dragon stage...

 

[Jon Baginski]

Thankyou

Thankyou

No matter what the future will be like for filmmaking, this is a historic moment. What RED have done is make it possible to not only capture a vision, but help create it. Filmmaking is always an expensive (or exhaustive) venture. Having the equipment be the smallest cost factor helps lift creative restrictions. Next year I'll have an Epic in my backpack, and nothing is better than seeing a worn (but perfectly working) camera that has history, is used instead of being kept in a pelican case because it costs more than most people make in 2 years. Thankyou RED for being true pioneers and changing the world, again.

 

[CocoBermudez]

I'm starting to think that some, on this forum, have an alter ego with which they use to rant and drop bomb...

Not only do some need an attitude adjustment but also a good set of testicles.

Good or bad...speak up!

 

[Dharmendra Singh]

this is simply incredible. thanks Jim. You rock!

 

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

Attitude adjustment?

After some of what I've read, the Scotsman in me wants to give them an altitude adjustment; pick a window pal, you're leaving!

Mike

 

[Ketch Rossi]

Attitude adjustment?

After some of what I've read, the Scotsman in me wants to give them an altitude adjustment; pick a window pal, you're leaving!

Mike

HA HA HA LOL Mike...

Fact is that we read this stuff because there is a Forum to post in it, yet people seem to forget that this is not just done here for the first time, I have taken a huge overnight loss on my Atom 3D rig, when just out of no were 3Ality Technica lowered the prices drastically, I was not pleased, but I understood, the competition is getting strong, the economy is ever changing, and if on top of it a manufacturer fins a way to built it cheaper, would be a crime to continue to charge top dollars for it.


Of course I do fill their pain, but I am in pain to, as the EPIC M tucked a huge hit as well, but you don't see me crying about it, in fact I just bought me a nice Monochrome taking advantage of this insane price drop, so Thank you, is all I can really say...

 

[Dominic DeSantis]

Pricing!!

Pricing!!

Jim Jannard just went from "Legendary" to "Historic" with these new prices. RED has changed the game for film makers.

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

Jim Jannard just went from "Legendary" to "Historic" with these new prices. RED has changed the game for film makers.

Razors - Razorblades

Eventually RED cameras might be free - you just have to buy all the accessories to make them work.....
RED probably makes much more money - profit wise off of the accessories.
No different than a movie theater making it's profits from selling $10 buckets of popcorn and $7 Cokes.
RED is dropping prices to stay out in front of Sony & Arri. - I am sure it is giving many people
a pause to contrast and reflect on the market if they are thinking of a purchase. Especially
if they were looking at the new Sony 4K offerings......

 

[Nikhil Kamkolkar]

Razors - Razorblades
Eventually RED cameras might be free - you just have to buy all the accessories to make them work.....
RED probably makes much more money - profit wise off of the accessories.
No different than a movie theater making it's profits from selling $10 buckets of popcorn and $7 Cokes.

Jim Jannard, Visionary and CEO extraordinaire, business process revolutionary, will fall back on a tired, "economics 101" business model of razors/razorblades?

Seriously?

I don't think so. (strictly my opinion of course, and you are entitled to yours)

 

[Bill Anderson]

"It's too much" "it's not enough" "It saved my life" "It's spoiling my life" "I didn't see this coming" "this was visible from space" "every idiot will own my camera" "you'd be an idiot to not own this camera" "you deserve to get one in the head!" " I just got one in the mail!" "get a brain" " I just got a brain!" ( :

 

[Jake Bastian]

Jim Jannard, Visionary and CEO extraordinaire, business process revolutionary, will fall back on a tired, "economics 101" business model of razors/razorblades?

Seriously?

I don't think so. (strictly my opinion of course, and you are entitled to yours)

Actually RED has admitted that media prices have financed many of their advances. Maybe not Razors - Razorblades to a T, but no economics student (or master) would ever believe that business models and case studies from lectures should ever be applied to the letter. You're just supposed to learn from them.