Everything changes... IMPORTANT post.

[Mark K.]

Great clip Evan, i especially love Coppola's words ... "the so called professionalism about movies will be destroyed ... forever ... you know ... at it will really be a art form". Go RED !

God help us all if that happens. If the market were flooded by even more ill-conceived and poorly executed content - it'd be almost impossible to escape (it's already hounded me away from watching conventional television - I'm forced to buy box-sets now).

Populist content isn't the answer, well-crafted content is - and that requires professionals.

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

Maybe film production will come full-circle: in the past, equipment was so expensive that the producers took care of that - they hire you for your skills. Now, equipment is becoming so cheap that it's the individual's skill set that counts. At either extreme, price is irrelevant. Or maybe it always has been. IMHO.

Anyway, I read that David Fincher would prefer to blow $3K a day on meal penalties (some union rule I think) than a Technocrane. You can agree or not.

Your mindset is the reason movies like "Spider-Man 3" cost $250 million dollars and are less fun to watch than pooping a knife. Technically amazing, yes. But, an outright chore to sit through.

I haven't seen it. But that's insane. $250M? I guess that's what it takes to get the loose change off of the proverbial fanboy's dirty bedroom carpet.

Millions and millions of moviegoers disagree with you.

I bet those millions of moviegoers forget about these Spiderman films in time. I doubt any of them (or even the best Batman film(s) which I love) will be the next Empire Strikes Back, let alone Ferris Bueller's Day Off. Of course, IMHO.

 

[Adam Eden]

I am error? Price error? Red error? WTF error?

This is boring..................................................

I think i just saw a Darlek?

 

[Freya]

I think theres a lot of posting here that seems to be based entirely out of fear and a kind of panic.
I want to post a few things here that are based more on thinking about the reality of the situation.
I'm hoping people will think about what I'm saying and consider it well, and try and overcome their fears.

Theres a lot of talk here of a drop in rental prices. One fellow even straight up asked if he should drop his rental prices.
The answer is no.

To be more specific, you might want to change your rental prices if there is a change in your rental market or if you are already finding that you are not having many rentals. The change that is happening is a change in the cost of buying a new camera, it is not a direct change to prices in the rental market. I would suggest that you keep an eye on prices in the rental market and set your price to what you feel is right according to those conditions. You might also want to think about whether you rent your cameras just on price or whether there is a service element or some other thing that comes into play. Perhaps your customers come to you because they like working with you for instance?

I should point out at this juncture that Jim Jannard is a successful businessman and yet he has waited for a change in the market to arrive before dropping prices. Hopefully I won't get in trouble for suggesting this, but it's been implied a lot throughout this thread that the change in prices is in response to the "new F" and it would be sensible if that was the case! Jim is lowering prices because he has a real considered reason for doing so. Not because of fear about what MIGHT happen at some point in the market. It is a decision based on business and not on pure fear.

The postings here seem to just suggest that rental prices will drop but there is not a considered reason given for why that might be the case.

To address the issue of whether a reduction in EPIC prices could reduce rental prices. It is indeed possible, however the effect will not be instant unless there is a lot of fear around the issue and people all start reducing their prices, but then that is more about the fear than it is about the reduction in the cost of an EPIC. The possible scenario in which it could actually happen, is if people buy EPICS and enter the rental market at a lower price undercutting existing rentals. HOWEVER, in order for this to happen, people have to buy EPICS at the cheaper price (which hasn't even been announced yet) they have to start a new business and become established enough that people have heard of them. This will all take time assuming it happens at all. During this time you can continue to rent your epic at the existing price. Also the new entrants might instead enter the market at a similar price to that which the market is currently asking. They may wish to do this in order to maximise their own rental income and make back their payments on their NEW camera which they will so far have made zero income on. Over time tho it is certainly true that rental prices could fall.

Okay lets look at it from another angle. Let us imagine that RED do not drop the prices at all. Lets just imagine that JIM saw this fabulous yacht last night. It's colours are beautiful and he can't stop imagining the fantastic parties he will have on it. The yacht even fills his dreams each night! This causes him to decide to just leave prices as is and to try and gouge as much money as he can in the short term to pay for the yacht. This is good news for rental incomes right? Well maybe not! If Red prices just stay static it may not mean the rental market will remain unaffected. What if those same people who buy an EPIC in our first example instead buy a Sony F5 or F55 and start renting that? Will that have no effect on the EPIC rental market? Theres already a lot of excitement about those cameras, people LOVE the Alexa style styling and that little colourful display on the side. It has already become as much an object of lust as Jims yacht! This carries over into the rental market where people who can't afford the alexa rentals can instead rent this similar looking camera, and can even shoot 4k with it! Now it is not RED rentals that are undercutting EPIC rental prices but SONY rentals instead! In fact it turns out that people love the new SONY workflow with it's wide choice of codecs, and are often using it to just shoot 1080p for an easy edit. Now your rentals are still being undercut but by cameras with a different workflow, which means less people using the RED workflow. (Do I need to explain why this is bad for all RED users?)

I know from my own life that action leads to growth and better things, whereas inaction leads to decay and ultimately death, Embrace change instead of fighting it. Work out how it can work for you. Be positive about things. Make things happen. If you are not making enough from your EPIC now, well get out there and do something about it instead of feeling sad that rental incomes will drop in the future (It is likely that rental incomes will drop in the future anyway, that would actually be normal for a video camera)

Wasn't the whole idea behind the red revolution to bring 4k to the people anyway? To allow the little people to have access to such technology? It seems some people seem more intent on shutting people out, to maximise their rental incomes. Sounds a bit counter revolutionary to me!

love

Freya

 

[Evan Starkey]

Wasn't the whole idea behind the red revolution to bring 4k to the people anyway? To allow the little people to have access to such technology? It seems some people seem more intent on shutting people out, to maximise their rental incomes. Sounds a bit counter revolutionary to me!

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[Emanuel A.]

Love this

He didn't predict youtube, he predicted the EPIC price reduction... LOL But that one addressed on the "professionalism", it could not be more appropriated to post it unless here. And yes, it is true. A lot of us have been influenced by the words of this Legend of moviemaking. I hope Jim/Jarred too, more than ever


PS: BTW, Tonino Guerra, scriptwriter of Fellini, Antonioni, among others, another Legend of 7th Art, told us directly towards our ears in Lisbon, 2005, more or less the same words. The history is on our side, my friends )

 

[Evan Starkey]

Other than the occasional half person with a full ego.... Reduser blows me away with smart people that would be great to meet one day

 

[CocoBermudez]

Coco, pm me your snail mail addy and you've got it. Heck, I'll throw the $120 red drive cable in for free. You totally deserve it. Loved your short.

Thanks my brother...you are too kind on all fronts...my snail mail is in my signature down below...

 

[Elsie N]

Coco, pm me your snail mail addy and you've got it. Heck, I'll throw the $120 red drive cable in for free. You totally deserve it. Loved your short.

I'd certainly rather give it to a true artist than a Silicon Valley hobby cinematographer.

Milan, your posts may look like turds, but your generosity makes them smell well. Nice gesture to a guy who is an asset to his community.

 

[Paul Harb]

+1000000000

God help us all if that happens. If the market were flooded by even more ill-conceived and poorly executed content - it'd be almost impossible to escape (it's already hounded me away from watching conventional television - I'm forced to buy box-sets now).

Populist content isn't the answer, well-crafted content is - and that requires professionals.

 

[Jon Jones]

98% of the people arguing on this thread about how good this is do not have an EPIC. Therefore they either have only a SCARLET which is good, or no RED camera at all. They have not invested 38k into a camera body 2 months ago only to see the price slashed overnight to who knows how much. Terry you present a great argument for one who doesn't even own an EPIC. You seem to be on everyone's butt for speaking their minds about a price cut in gear that will lay our investment to waste overnight. Peer you keep on poking everyone... Who are you, do you even have a camera? People this is a forum for us, all of us. Let those that are speaking their mind, speak their mind without jumping all over them like Phillip whats his name would call a fan boy. We are potentially talking about a gigantic overnight price cut, where the price has been steady since inception, not a ramping downward in cost.

This is a business move, this to RED is not about you, it is about money, it is about new customers, I think I can count a few on here already. But most likely it's just a bunch of fan boys talkin smack because it's a forum and they have no retribution. I do not talk smack to others... Why? Well because I like my RED account. I like having firmware updates. But those of you who do not own a camera system can not even comprehend that and therefore you keep on poking people about their posts.

If RED wants to lower their prices, big deal. What are we going to do about it, except come here and speak our minds. This is one of the main reasons RED made a forum for us. SO that we can sit here and speak our minds and not go out into all of the other forums and spout our trash. Let those that are mad, be mad. Let those that are happy be happy, this is "REDuser", not "onlyposthereifyouwanttogetslammeduser"

 

[Antony M]

The upgrade to Dragon is good and all, and I'm excited for it. Canon baited RED with the c300, and RED took it, hook, line, and sinker. Canon has tons of products to help support them, but RED has 2 products. EPIC and SCARLET. How long do you think they can keep going down in price before Canon wins? I would be willing to bet that the Canon company can support delivering 4k camera's at 5 grand each. And I would also be willing to bet that they will go there, just to get rid of RED. Where will we be as customers of RED with hundreds of thousands of bucks invested that will then be worth tens of thousands? Ask yourself that before you buy another RED camera.

Hmmm. Canon is much more than just camera bodies.

I think the sales of Epics and Scarlets are probably helping Canon sell more lenses.

I don't expect Canon are going to artificially lower their prices to put Red out of business.

And Jim isn't (at least from his announcement) trying to go below cost price just to compete with Canon/Sony. So it shouldn't hurt Red.

 

[Jon Jones]

And I don't think anyone thought that RED would lower their prices to hurt Canon, but their doing it.

Hmmm. Canon is much more than just camera bodies.

I think the sales of Epics and Scarlets are probably helping Canon sell more lenses.

I don't expect Canon are going to artificially lower their prices to put Red out of business.

And Jim isn't (at least from his announcement) trying to go below cost price just to compete with Canon/Sony. So it shouldn't hurt Red.

 

[Elsie N]

98% of the people arguing on this thread about how good this is do not have an EPIC. Therefore they either have only a SCARLET which is good, or no RED camera at all. They have not invested 38k into a camera body 2 months ago only to see the price slashed overnight to who knows how much. Terry you present a great argument for one who doesn't even own an EPIC. You seem to be on everyone's butt for speaking their minds about a price cut in gear that will lay our investment to waste overnight. Peer you keep on poking everyone... Who are you, do you even have a camera? People this is a forum for us, all of us. Let those that are speaking their mind, speak their mind without jumping all over them like Phillip whats his name would call a fan boy. We are potentially talking about a gigantic overnight price cut, where the price has been steady since inception, not a ramping downward in cost.

This is a business move, this to RED is not about you, it is about money, it is about new customers, I think I can count a few on here already. But most likely it's just a bunch of fan boys talkin smack because it's a forum and they have no retribution. I do not talk smack to others... Why? Well because I like my RED account. I like having firmware updates. But those of you who do not own a camera system can not even comprehend that and therefore you keep on poking people about their posts.

If RED wants to lower their prices, big deal. What are we going to do about it, except come here and speak our minds. This is one of the main reasons RED made a forum for us. SO that we can sit here and speak our minds and not go out into all of the other forums and spout our trash. Let those that are mad, be mad. Let those that are happy be happy, this is "REDuser", not "onlyposthereifyouwanttogetslammeduser"

Jon, you left out one critical point. Those who have come here to protest the price drop have said they are openly lobbying to get RED to NOT drop the price. Is this a one way street? Do those who WANT the price drop not have a right to push back for their personal interest?

 

[Jon Jones]

Who am I pushing against by complaining about my investment loss? Do you really think RED is truly listening to us, to decide the price of their product? If you do, then you truly are deluded, and have zero business sense. If you think that pushing back against the people who are complaining is going to help sway RED to lower their prices then repeat my conclusion in the first sentence. I am not slamming you Elsie, and I don't think that of you, I'm just bringing to light what maybe your not seeing here.

Jon, you left out one critical point. Those who have come here to protest the price drop have said they are openly lobbying to get RED to NOT drop the price. Is this a one way street? Do those who WANT the price drop not have a right to push back for their personal interest?

 

[Elsie N]

Who am I pushing against by complaining about my investment loss? Do you really think RED is truly listening to us, to decide the price of their product? If you do, then you truly are deluded, and have zero business sense. If you think that pushing back against the people who are complaining is going to help sway RED to lower their prices then repeat my conclusion in the first sentence. I am not slamming you Elsie, and I don't think that of you, I'm just bringing to light what maybe your not seeing here.

Well, we have differing opinions of clear thinking. And if you only want one side of the issue aired, maybe start a closed forum on your computer. Then you won't have to read dissenting opinions. Offered with all due respect.

 

[Martin Weiss]

Ahem...

 

[Elsie N]

Ahem...

Martin, I said "with all due respect" '-) (and that was even after he called me deluded)

 

[Jon Jones]

I don't think any of our opinions pointed at the direct issue are considered dissenting towards each other. You and others act like people that are complaining about our loss of investment are attacking you, when we are not. We are simply talking about the original point, and that is this, paraphrased of course.... Hey guys, I know that you just spent 38k on all your brand new EPIC bodies, and we value your opinion, and are glad that your buying our product but... We are slashing the prices to bring in new and younger talent. We hope that you still continue buying from us, but we have to make way for new blood. Sorry.

Well, we have differing opinions of clear thinking. And if you only want one side of the issue aired, maybe start a closed forum on your computer. Then you won't have to read dissenting opinions. Offered with all due respect.

 

[Bryan Moore]

Alot of talk from people that don't even own cameras.....