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People not getting the RED

Andrew Burhoe

Andrew Burhoe

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This is merely a thread about why people put RED down.

In short I do not understand why people say that RED cameras are bad. That they are weak, but when you see the films done with they hold very well.

I mean why must I always read about this great new DLSR camera when they always seem to produce the same image.

This is purely my own opinion too. Sure the Alexa is great, but why must DPs who use them say they don't get RED cameras? In the end it is a tool that creates an image.

Thoughts?
 
Who cares what people say about RED cameras. If they are good to you, then use them. If they don't fit your needs, move on. People will always have opinions.

It's kind of like the same bashing/praising Apple, basing/praising Canon, or any other fan-based brand. Who cares.
 
There is no shortage of people out there who have had negative experiences with RED cameras, be they the RED ONE, Epic or Scarlet. For many, it's a one-and-done mentality, meaning if something goes wrong with a camera on a shoot, they'll never go with RED again. That's just the way some people think, and if you have an issue with a camera result in lost footage on a shoot, can you blame them?

Our role, as RED owners and, in a sense, "ambassadors," is to educate where and when we can, and to know our tools well enough that if there ever is a problem, there is also a solution.
 
Agreed with all above and yet there is so much more to it, in my world travels, I came across Rental facilities, and some of the biggest too, which send out cameras that have missing parts, and or don't service them well, after they return from a job, and the end user does not know shit how to get in to the menus and make it work, by simply setting the camera to His/hers liking.

Very sad indeed... But so very true, and it has happened also in my native Country, Italy, and with great pleasure I try and give what ever support I could when there, but not knowing how ot operate a camera is patrt of why this happens, of course RED cameras like any other cameras, are electronics and can fail, just like Alexa did in our shoot in Varsavia, were tucked those guys hours to get it bak up, while we were shooting EPIC footage non stop all day long.

So, some will use and love RED cameras, some won't, same with Alexa or any other camera, to each their choice and freedom to like one vs. the other, and talk crap about one or the other.

Of course when I come across pure BS that some one says about teh RED EPIC which I happen to know extremely well, then I will put any one in place about what is imaginary and what is the reality and the facts of what one can do vs. the other.

We just wish that we like a product vs. the other and we all make it known with respect to what ever any one else's likes to use, without the need ot put one nor the other down, but this is not what happens, and this is why we then all passionately get dragged in to strongly discuss, and defend what we favor... ;)
 
Ketch,

Nice way to put it.

But I will say this. I was walking to a line producer of a very successful film that used the Alexa. And so she was trying to have a discussion about cameras with other people. No wanted to talk about it. What ended up happening was us going back and forth on this. The end of it came out that they did not see the need for 4K. So is that what people don't understand?

Also I had another industry professional say that usually producers will just agree with what the DP says. I don't buy that. I think we all know very knowledgable producers who could school anyone.

So who is really to say RED is the best or worst vs anything out there?

Like you said and I agree highly it is up to the user what they like.

:)
 
Lubezki kind of just tore a hole in what he used with Tree of Life. The final film just looked amazing that you never once questioned him.

But for anyone out there. Didn't Deakins come out saying he does not like RED cameras? This could be me misreading what he had said.
 
Andrew Burhoe said:
Lubezki kind of just tore a hole in what he used with Tree of Life. The final film just looked amazing that you never once questioned him.

But for anyone out there. Didn't Deakins come out saying he does not like RED cameras? This could be me misreading what he had said.
Click to expand...

Lubezki shot 2 features with Alexa and now he s shooting new Malick project with that.Cant say Arri paid money to Lubezki and Deakins use their cameras..
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
Best DP's uses best camera look at Deakins and Lubezki...
Click to expand...


Humm, okay, best not to be taken down this road.. AGAIN... Lets for a moment don't talk about me and what I KNOW, since I didn't make any MOVIES... YET...


Lets instead say that according to your statement then should we come to the conclusion, that to name just a few right off the top of my head:

Peter Jackson and His DP's
James Cameron and his DP's
David Fincher & co.
Ridley Scott and his DP's

Well we get the point don't we, I don't need to list the now dozen on BIG names do we?

Each uses what they want, for the reasons they choose, just better no one come and tell me that Alexa has better producing image for 4K finish , or I'll put them in their place with real hard facts, no matter what their name is, that simple.

Apart from this, Alexa has its strengths as does Epic, choose the one that best fits your liking and needs of the project, just be sure not to be mistakingly confuse which one does what, and which one does indeed produce the best and most sharpest image quality and strongest Post manipulation and grading and VFX capacity vs the other when going to 4k, and for that matter even going to 2k, and with this I sure don't wish to pass judgment on any DP choosing Alexa even for the wrong reason, as whom am I to say so, but when I see it I say it as it is... ;)
 
Haha. I know right. Well remember Soderbergh kind of showed that RED looks damn good. Che and Magic Mike were fantastically shot.

I can't wait to see what Jackson does with The Hobbit.
 
KETCH ROSSi said:
Humm, okay, best not to be taken down this road.. AGAIN... Lets for a moment don't talk about me and what I KNOW, since I didn't make any MOVIES... YET...


Lets instead say that according to your statement then should we come to the conclusion, that to name just a few right off the top of my head:

Peter Jackson and His DP's
James Cameron and his DP's
David Fincher & co.
Ridley Scott and his DP's

Well we get the point don't we, I don't need to list the now dozen on BIG names do we?

Each uses what they want, for the reasons they choose, just better no one come and tell me that Alexa has better producing image for 4K finish , or I'll put them in their place with real hard facts, no matter what their name is, that simple.

Apart from this, Alexa has its strengths as does Epic, choose the one that best fits your liking and needs of the project, just be sure not to be mistakingly confuse which one does what, and which one does indeed produce the best and most sharpest image quality and strongest Post manipulation and grading and VFX capacity vs the other when going to 4k, and for that matter even going to 2k, and with this I sure don't wish to pass judgment on any DP choosing Alexa even for the wrong reason, as whom am I to say so, but when I see it I say it as it is... ;)
Click to expand...
i said Deakins and Lubezki because they are best cinematographers for me..You can call it yourself best DoP in the world because of you are using Red epic..simply i do not care since you are not Roger :)
just admire their knowledge and choices,sick of hearing this red fanaticism everytime on this forum..
 
Did you read what Dariusz Wolski said about using the RED Epic in AC? Pretty spot on impression.

I loved what Fincher and Cronenweth did for Girl With The Dragon Tattoo, but in the end I was disappointed by the lack of artisanship. In short I wish they had done something like Storaro or Elswit. But then again that is just my opinion.

As for Cameron..... well let's just say I wish the best for him. :)
 
Now now. hahaha.

I see what you're saying. There is no doubt that they can't pull off some of the best shit in the last 20 years.
 
Ghandi said it best:

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

Andrew Burhoe said:
This is merely a thread about why people put RED down.

In short I do not understand why people say that RED cameras are bad. That they are weak, but when you see the films done with they hold very well.

I mean why must I always read about this great new DLSR camera when they always seem to produce the same image.

This is purely my own opinion too. Sure the Alexa is great, but why must DPs who use them say they don't get RED cameras? In the end it is a tool that creates an image.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
I respect Deakins as much as anybody and there's more to his decision making process than article snippets reveal.

Keep in mind at some point you will have to decide what the right camera is for you.

Do some tests. Download some files. Rent a couple cameras over the weekend. Think about the future of display technology and if you want to play in that market.
If you find yourself in a situation where you can choose what camera you get to use for a job this research will pay off.

For my style of shooting and generally what my clients are looking for I desire resolution, nice dynamic range, accurate color reproduction, low light performance, and a flexible raw file. Pretty much what everybody wants.

The benefit of additional things that matter like working natively in 4k or 5k in realtime within 3rd party applications is an added bonus as well.
 
To the point Phil makes about dynamic range, I've had people tell me they prefer Alexa for that reason. It may be a 3K camera, but the DR is important and from charts (even those that Jim has posted) you can see the difference in grey/light grey between RED vs Alexa. Not to say one is better than the other, but different. And it's up to DP to make his preference.
 
I find myself often frustrated with my RED experiences. I own an Epic and a Scarlet. I find the low light in tungsten light way too noisy for my own tastes. I find it frustrating that audio is not enabled on playback, even though I've seen videos from RED saying it is. But then only in Beta software.

I do also find the DR lacking. It seems like when protecting highlights, the image becomes too dark. I find I shoot more for less noise.

I find Red very frustrating, since my Red Rocket broke (my fault) It takes forever for me to export dailies, or pro res files.

I love the fact that I can take my epic to Dragon, but my scarlet won't be a matching b-camera any more.
 
I see why you could be frustrated. The best thing I have is done is find RED Users who have had these issues and made them work.

Much like Apple who never helps. Find people who work with it 24/7.

But yeah working with low-res files of the Hi-Res is a nightmare.
 
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