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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Log Grading

I'd be happy to discuss finer points of Log grading. Unfortunately, as it had been stated before, Blackmagic implemented it in a way, that is not practical to use, without spending another $30k. To grade L/G/G with trackballs and LOG style with a mouse makes no sense. It's like a beautiful girl smiling at me, but when I try to talk to her, I find, that she doesn't speak English and I don't speak Hungarian. Although, if I'm willing to spend some money...:rant:
 
Jake,

I understand your point, and I feel the same way. I do not know how Euphonix is mapped-out, but I use the Element controls, and the only parameter that I am forced to use the mouse with is the 4th one (Offset).

Impractical mapping: yes. But, I am trying to do my part, and have voiced my opinion and put a ticket on the BMD support to see if we can get the 4th trackball/wheel mapped to the Element 4th trackball/wheel. Hopefully the Log other bottom parameters will be also logically available when Log grading is enabled.

But, as I explained on the previous posting, having explained/elaborated the other "finer points" of this grading format on this thread by masters like you will be greatly appreciated.

Respectfully,
 
Luis Otero said:
Jake,

I understand your point, and I feel the same way. I do not know how Euphonix is mapped-out, but I use the Element controls, and the only parameter that I am forced to use the mouse with is the 4th one (Offset).

Impractical mapping: yes. But, I am trying to do my part, and have voiced my opinion and put a ticket on the BMD support to see if we can get the 4th trackball/wheel mapped to the Element 4th trackball/wheel. Hopefully the Log other bottom parameters will be also logically available when Log grading is enabled.

But, as I explained on the previous posting, having explained/elaborated the other "finer points" of this grading format on this thread by masters like you will be greatly appreciated.

Respectfully,
Click to expand...

Offsets/Exposure/Brightness trackball is the most important control and don't forget contrast and pivot. ALL those controls constitute the very basis of Log grading and ALL must be controlled with the mouse. Not practical...
I'm sure BM heard us loud and clear on the re-mapping question. If they ever decide to accommodate majority of users sans BM panel, they will do it at their own accord.
 
Suppose a non-pro wanted to use a mouse for Log grading... What's the downfall other than slightly frustrating control mechanism? Basically, if I'm using Resolve is there a "log grading" mode? I haven't made the switch yet, so I'm used to LGG, but that seems fairly cumbersome now that I have a rough idea of how it's supposed to work in log (e.g. contrast mapped properly to a trackball... or in this case, a mouse... which I'd be using anyway.)
 
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Mike P. said:
Suppose a non-pro wanted to use a mouse for Log grading... What's the downfall other than slightly frustrating control mechanism? Basically, if I'm using Resolve is there a "log grading" mode? I haven't made the switch yet, so I'm used to LGG, but that's seems fairly cumbersome now that I have a rough idea of how it's supposed to work (e.g. contrast mapped properly to a trackball... or in this case, a mouse... which I'd be using anyway.)
Click to expand...

Sure, knock yourself out grading with a mouse in Log mode, because it's the only way now Log grading can be used. If you needed to grade day in and day out with just a mouse and needed to switch between LGG and Log a few hundred times a day, I doubt you'd call this "slightly frustrating control mechanism".
But, if you feel like still wanting to use it, be careful, the default way affected areas are set up right now is dangerous, you may do more harm, than good.
 
Jake,

If the re-mapping was "miraculously" unleashed by BMD in final V9, which would you ideal plotting using the Element full set of control surface modules?
 
I am digesting this mapping, and how I would use it. It sounds really interesting, and versatile. But I just need one clarification: the trackball used for offset, is it a master one that is used just for up or down all RGB at once, or would it offset the color independently based on the traditional LGG color-wheel distribution? Really interesting...
 
jake blackstone said:
Lustre, FilmMaster and Baselight all use three trackballs mapping.
In no particular order:
Right or Center- Offsets-trackball, exposure -ring
Center or Right- Contrast-ring, pivot point- trackball
Left, soft assigned standard LGG
Click to expand...


Personally, I really like using the left trackball/ring for Shadows. Setting it up that way allows for a very quick setting of overall color using offset and contrast, but with the ability to have balanced blacks in a way that doesn't really affect the rest of the image. But the ability to reconfigure those things is a great advantage, and to my knowledge is really only currently available on Baselight.
 
M Most said:
Personally, I really like using the left trackball/ring for Shadows. Setting it up that way allows for a very quick setting of overall color using offset and contrast, but with the ability to have balanced blacks in a way that doesn't really affect the rest of the image. But the ability to reconfigure those things is a great advantage, and to my knowledge is really only currently available on Baselight.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would agree, that Baselight has the most flexible interface. But personally, I find the most natural is the way it's done in Lustre with CP-100 panel. In Log grading mode under the left trackball there are three buttons, corresponding to LGG. Simply pushing the corresponding button assigns the left trackball to the desired control on the fly, which is very similar to Baselight, but even better. Plus Lustre allows complete remapping of the CP-100 panel, if one wishes to customize it even more.
 
Question on 32 bit vs 16 bit on composited vfx with redlogfilm, I find I am doing all my complex compositing at 32 bit (especially with reflected light between vfx and redlogfilm). When i composited with redgamma with vfx the 32 bit wasn't as critical, but I'm convinced from my testing that compositing vfx with redlogfilm is the way to go. So for log questions:

Do colorist like composited vfx/redlogfilm as 32 bit openexr(which isn't the most stable with the workstream i use), or do they want the redlogfilm linearized as it goes to dpx, before they load it into Davinci (etc) ?

Am i wrong about the need for compositing at 32 bit for heavy vfx with redlogfilm(thus the 32 bit input to davinci would not be relevant)?

Am i confusing words again?
 
All the visual effects I've ever gotten were uncompressed DPX files. And I've been involved in some fairly large-budget projects. In some cases, they've shot over some wedges just to make sure that the foreground/background correction is in the ballpark for the scene, and we've also sent over non-effects stills to the VFX facility to help them as well.

There are systems out there that will allow compositing in the color correction system (particularly Inferno, etc.), but that's beyond my pay grade.
 
I have recieved back both linear DPX frames and properly log encoded files from VFX teams. Ill take the log encoded material any day if the camera material is log.

How can this be accomplished use a lut workflow and nuke and AE?

Cheers
Matt Riggieri
 
PatrickFaith said:
Do colorist like composited vfx/redlogfilm as 32 bit openexr(which isn't the most stable with the workstream i use), or do they want the redlogfilm linearized as it goes to dpx, before they load it into Davinci (etc) ?
Click to expand...

EXRs should normally be linear (that's true scene referred linear light, not "video" which I think is what what you are referring to when you talk of "linearising") not log. It is possible to put log data into an EXR file, but it can be a risky thing to do as you need to make sure everybody further along the pipeline knows they need to interpret thetm in a non-standard way.

Virtually nothing will give real time performance with 32-bit EXRs. I would suggest that although you may want to composite in 32-bit float, you might be better exporting EXRs as 16 bit half float (or 16 bit log DPX, which is effectively the same thing.)
 
jake blackstone said:
...In Log grading mode under the left trackball there are three buttons, corresponding to LGG. Simply pushing the corresponding button assigns the left trackball to the desired control on the fly...
Click to expand...

This is very clever, Jake! I really would appreciate any input from BMD on the possibility of future re-mapping, even if it is a limited one. Things like this will allow us, colorists that cannot afford to buy the $30K panel, to do a better job, in an efficient way.
 
ok. I thought that was maybe the point as when I widen them up it seems to behave more like standard color controls. just need to spend more time learning (unfortunately mousing) on it.
Please BMD - more Tangent Element implementation all around...
 
jake blackstone said:
Way to narrow and the transition is too sharp.
Click to expand...

Jake,

Would you mind share with us which are your recommended parameters to set them, so they are not too narrow, and to have a good transition point?

Thanks,
 
Luis Otero said:
Jake,

Would you mind share with us which are your recommended parameters to set them, so they are not too narrow, and to have a good transition point?

Thanks,
Click to expand...
Personally I would widen them all the way, so they start behaving just like standard LGG controls. At the beginning of session you can group all shots in the timeline and apply this wide setting node to all shots. After that just remove all of them from the group. This way you wouldn't need to keep re-adjusting the range.
 
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