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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

The Death of Avid...

I think if Avid is able to streamline their business, focus on giving editors, sound designers, etc what they need, and keeping an eye on the future they can survive this and perhaps reach the top again. There's still some things that Media Composer can do that the other NLEs can't. And of course, the other NLEs can do some things MC can't. If I were the CEO of Avid, I would focus on the following.

- Continue to transform Media Composer into 64-bit powerhouse. Make it take full advantage of any 64-bit computing system.
- Better native codec support. I actually like DNxHD for offline editing, but give the editors the best of both worlds. Make it easy and smooth to edit natively.
- Better GPU support. Harness as much power as possible out of relatively affordable GPU cards.
- Evolve the UI. Don't remove the things editors have used for years and that they rely on but rather add additional user interface options for editing in new ways. In other words, innovate but don't alienate.
- Be proactive in the various communities, both on the web and events where user base is present. Build loyalty, listen to customers, build products they want to use, are willing to pay to use.
- Change slogan from "We are Avid" to "We are here to help you create"

I actually don't think they need to be as cheap as FCP X. They just need to have a superior product to everything else out there and then they can charge as much as they need to in order to make a profit.

I'll be following their moves closely over the next few months.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I know Paul personally, and I know Avid workflow drives him crazy (he sees it as prehistoric and out of touch).
:laugh:

So I'm sure he'd love to see Avid die a slow, painless death!


I actually see this Avid announcement as a positive one. As everyone has said, it means they are focusing on the PRO market, and leaving the CONSUMER market to FCX, etc.

I have a different perspective on Avid that I'd like to share (it gets beat up quite a lot on these boards). I frequently work in a HUGE facility with 20 edit rooms that run day and night. We work with over 50+ TB's of raided footage, all for promo. Its a multi-multi million dollar facility.

In this situation, where we have literally 1000's of projects being shared by 100's of producers and editors, Avid works pretty much FLAWLESSLY. It's designed to work seamlessly in a 1080 world, both when mastering to tape, and working from digital media.

That being said - they need incorporate a better 4K workflow, as right now they are optimized for high volume, high end broadcast work, and not much else.

Hopefully, this announcement will lead to exactly that - Avid doubling down on the PRO future, which means greater 4k, 5k, and 6K workflows, etc.
Click to expand...

Ill speak for myself if you don't mind Nick.

I have no interest in Avid dying or any Post tool dying for that matter, competition breeds advancement the RED camera is proof of that.

Avid workflow doesn't drive me crazy at all. Actually, for the last 5 years I have prefered it. As a Director/DP/Finishing Artist I'm involved in the entire process I use all the tools out there. My finishing tool is Scratch and Delivering or creating MXF and DnxHD has been my life and a step less than delivering ProRes until recently, so that said Avid workflow was easier and more more lucrative for me because it took less time.
Nick your statement is totally false.

I think what Nick may be referring to was the antiquated tape workflow that he requested for a HVX shoot in 2008 because the post facililty didnt want to update their avid system to import the HVX MXF files. Instead they taped out 200 hours of footage that was then re ingested in to the avid. This had nothing to do with AVID it had to with the taking tapeless workflow to tape. Thank God that I didn't shoot Varicam on that job. I would of never got the amazing footage that those lil HVXs got on that gig.

Anyone that has some deep experience in post knows that it doesn't really matter what the software is, sure you may prefer one over the other but there are a million ways to skin a cat. Avid, FCP, Premier, Smoke, Scratch, Divinci, AE, Shake, Nuke, Flame , these are just tools or instruments, just like a hammer or guitar. One person may use a Craftsman Hammer traditionally another person may hammer nails with the side of a Stanley Hammer, at the end of day the Nail is going in the board. You may play a Gibson Les Paul Jazz guitar or you may play a Left Handed Stratacaster, either you can shred on the guitar or not...period. Right now FCPX is considered an Epiphone, you can still shred on it but it just feels cheap in your hands compared to a Gibson.

I hope Avid stays in the game, continues to develop and continues to push other NLEs.
 
Paul E. McCarthy said:
Ill speak for myself if you don't mind Nick.

I have no interest in Avid dying or any Post tool dying for that matter, competition breeds advancement the RED camera is proof of that.

Avid workflow doesn't drive me crazy at all. Actually, for the last 5 years I have prefered it. As a Director/DP/Finishing Artist I'm involved in the entire process I use all the tools out there. My finishing tool is Scratch and Delivering or creating MXF and DnxHD has been my life and a step less than delivering ProRes until recently, so that said Avid workflow was easier and more more lucrative for me because it took less time.
Nick your statement is totally false.

I think what Nick may be referring to was the antiquated tape workflow that he requested for a HVX shoot in 2008 because the post facililty didnt want to update their avid system to import the HVX MXF files. Instead they taped out 200 hours of footage that was then re ingested in to the avid. This had nothing to do with AVID it had to with the taking tapeless workflow to tape. Thank God that I didn't shoot Varicam on that job. I would of never got the amazing footage that those lil HVXs got on that gig.

Anyone that has some deep experience in post knows that it doesn't really matter what the software is, sure you may prefer one over the other but there are a million ways to skin a cat. Avid, FCP, Premier, Smoke, Scratch, Divinci, AE, Shake, Nuke, Flame , these are just tools or instruments, just like a hammer or guitar. One person may use a Craftsman Hammer traditionally another person may hammer nails with the side of a Stanley Hammer, at the end of day the Nail is going in the board. You may play a Gibson Les Paul Jazz guitar or you may play a Left Handed Stratacaster, either you can shred on the guitar or not...period. Right now FCPX is considered an Epiphone, you can still shred on it but it just feels cheap in your hands compared to a Gibson.

I hope Avid stays in the game, continues to develop and continues to push other NLEs.
Click to expand...

Haha, Paul I meant no harm. I understand your preference for tapeless, one day it will all be tapeless.

But for now, tape is still a tremendous way to archive shoots. In fact, every single one of History's shoots are now laid to tape, and from there ingested into literally hundreds of projects. Keeping it on drives has proved dangerous and unreliable, and as producers are scattered across the city (and country)...nothing has proved as durable and long lasting as good 'ole HD-CAM tape.

But one day...perhaps in the next 5 years...there will be a Solid State solution that is time-code searchable that will eventually replace tape. A solution, that like tape, you can literally drop, throw across the room, and completely man-handle and yet all your footage will stay completely safe, and easily accesible.

In the meantime, don't underestimate tape. There's a reason all shows at AETN are mastered to it!

And yes...Avid's growth as an NLE is great for everyone. I'm sure Premiere's latest advancements has put a fire under their ass.
 
I never got why Avid bought Liquid and Pinnacle. Good move to sell it away and focus on Avid MC. I don't thrust Premiere (it has always given me nightmares in it's total lack of robustness and sudden end of professional features -> trapped in a corner situations), FCP is dead, and FCPX has a different mood... I don't see any real alternatives to Avid.
 
In this industry, you need top management that are both creative and understand the technology. I've listened to Jim Jannard, Michael Cioni and Grant Petty speak at length. I believe this why their companies have become leaders. I've also listened to Gary Greenfield and Kirk Arnold of Avid speak. They were very gracious, but I didn't get the sense they could go toe-to-toe with Jim, Michael, Grant... not to mention Steve Jobs.
 
Nick Morrison said:
Haha, Paul I meant no harm. I understand your preference for tapeless, one day it will all be tapeless.

But for now, tape is still a tremendous way to archive shoots. In fact, every single one of History's shoots are now laid to tape, and from there ingested into literally hundreds of projects. Keeping it on drives has proved dangerous and unreliable, and as producers are scattered across the city (and country)...nothing has proved as durable and long lasting as good 'ole HD-CAM tape.

But one day...perhaps in the next 5 years...there will be a Solid State solution that is time-code searchable that will eventually replace tape. A solution, that like tape, you can literally drop, throw across the room, and completely man-handle and yet all your footage will stay completely safe, and easily accesible.

In the meantime, don't underestimate tape. There's a reason all shows at AETN are mastered to it!

And yes...Avid's growth as an NLE is great for everyone. I'm sure Premiere's latest advancements has put a fire under their ass.
Click to expand...

Have fun fixing all those hdcam decks that they dont make anymore with burnt out motors in 2016.
 
Paul stop posting FUD. Avid is a very reputable company and they are not going broke.

If i was a shareholder of Avid i would send you a cease and desist order as spreading bullshit like this can potentially damage a company.

And to the moderator please close this thread.
 
Avid is certainly a reputable company. No one is denying that. Chrysler, GM and Kodak are all reputable as well.

Reputation <> going broke. Running out of cash = going broke. And that is exactly what's been happening at Avid.
 
As long as AVID insists on building it's software from seriously OLD code, there will never be a fast, sleek version that AVID users have been waiting for.

The new MC STILL relies on the original code from , I dunno..1980 something.

The speed, ease and elegance of AVID editing systems still make it the platinum standard for so many editors and production houses of merit, but I think we all wish they had had a serious rethink of the house of cards they were building.

And, yes, AVID DOES have a serious place in Audio post with ProTools, but let us not forget that ProTools waas built as a sister product to AVID MC,Symphony and DS.

At NAB, AVID pushed the heck out of ProTools and gave little real estate to their editing software, which I DO find seriously questionable when they had just released MC6, a program frought with so many bugs that it was a little LESS than a beta version should be.

Do I think AVID has a lot of work to do to compete with other new condenders (Edius,SMAC,Premiere)?

OH HELL, YES.

Do I think they will get off their pompous arses and actually LISTEN to their user base?

Well, if history is any indication..probably NOT.

As an AVID owner,editor and fan, the way AVID continues to do business the way they do confounds me.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
As long as AVID insists on building it's software from seriously OLD code, there will never be a fast, sleek version that AVID users have been waiting for.

The new MC STILL relies on the original code from , I dunno..1980 something.

The speed, ease and elegance of AVID editing systems still make it the platinum standard for so many editors and production houses of merit, but I think we all wish they had had a serious rethink of the house of cards they were building.

And, yes, AVID DOES have a serious place in Audio post with ProTools, but let us not forget that ProTools waas built as a sister product to AVID MC,Symphony and DS.

At NAB, AVID pushed the heck out of ProTools and gave little real estate to their editing software, which I DO find seriously questionable when they had just released MC6, a program frought with so many bugs that it was a little LESS than a beta version should be.

Do I think AVID has a lot of work to do to compete with other new condenders (Edius,SMAC,Premiere)?

OH HELL, YES.

Do I think they will get off their pompous arses and actually LISTEN to their user base?

Well, if history is any indication..probably NOT.

As an AVID owner,editor and fan, the way AVID continues to do business the way they do confounds me.
Click to expand...
Pro Tools was not built as a sister product to MC, Symphony, etc. Pro Tools was previously owned by Digidesign, which was acquired by Avid. There is a huge userbase for Pro Tools. It's arguable that without Pro Tools, Avid may be in deeper trouble than their current situation.

MC6 has some nice new features, but admittedly is still being tweaked to bring it up to a solid release build. I can't speak to the actual code being used but the one thing I can say about Avid is they respect their backwards compatibility. They know older projects will have to be opened in new versions of MC, and they try to make that as seamless as possible. They also have a large user base that is very comfortable with the interface and they don't want to pull an Apple move and alienate that userbase. I do think there's a way to meet in the middle somewhere. It's in the customization of the UI. Add new features but let the user decide if they want to use them. For example, when they added the smart tool, longtime Avid editors didn't all love it. So, Avid gave you the choice to not use it. My list above are just a few of the things I'd like to see from Avid. With the right leadership and focus, they can survive this. In fact, I think they can do better than that. But they won't survive if we continue to see the race to the bottom that has happened in recent times. We can't have everything for $299. Avid doesn't have an iPhone business to bankroll it's professional video department. We need to be realistic about what it takes to run a niche business and that products don't magically create themselves over night. The boutique mentality, although valid has had some potentially negative consequences in my opinion. Certain segments of that market have been demanding companies to practically give things away for free. And then wonder why these companies cannot survive.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
The new MC STILL relies on the original code from , I dunno..1980 something.
Click to expand...

How do you figure that, since it was all rewritten for 64-bit? Old paradigms, maybe. Old code? Don't see that.

BRANDON JAMESON said:
At NAB, AVID pushed the heck out of ProTools and gave little real estate to their editing software, which I DO find seriously questionable when they had just released MC6, a program frought with so many bugs that it was a little LESS than a beta version should be.
Click to expand...

What?! Which NAB did you go to? I believe there was a single audio pod in the booth and multiple pods for edit software. In fact, the ongoing MC6 demo was the first pod you saw at the front of the booth to the right of the stage area. The main stage presented a lot of combo demos with end-to-end post workflow including both editing and audio post.

- Oliver
 
Dude I can't believe Adobe and Avid don't offer dividends! I am buying Apple instead....do they sell half shares?:laugh:
 
Oliver Peters said:
How do you figure that, since it was all rewritten for 64-bit? Old paradigms, maybe. Old code? Don't see that.



What?! Which NAB did you go to? I believe there was a single audio pod in the booth and multiple pods for edit software. In fact, the ongoing MC6 demo was the first pod you saw at the front of the booth to the right of the stage area. The main stage presented a lot of combo demos with end-to-end post workflow including both editing and audio post.

- Oliver
Click to expand...

Oliver.....seriously???

I went to the NAB that featured PROTOOLS!!!!

That figures, because MC 6. is so buggy,clunky and unpredictable, even AVID advises you not to install it!!!!

MC 6 runs on a version of the Mac OS that is no longer easliy attainable, which makes it one step away from crazy, and NO you do NOT have to write all new code to upgrade software to 64bit....who told you that they did???

I am an AVID editor and AVID CLEARLY is concentrating on AUDIO right now, anyway you look at it..or WHATEVER entrance to the AVID booth you came in from.

Look, If you can find 4 working pro editors , who arent paid spokespeople, that find MC or Symphony 6. elegant and workable, please let me know and I'll buy you a drink.

Actually, if you can find ONE compositor who thinks AVID has their back after investing in DS, I'll raise you a drink and buy you a cupcake.


Until then, Oliver..SERIOUSLY????
 
Kill Media Composer. Adopt, evolve and grow DS. I've been saying that since 99, Dear Avid.
 
Brandon,

You are delusional. MC and Symphony 6, when installed properly on certified hardware with the proper OS versions and drivers are very reliable. Are there bugs? Sure, but every other NLE's has bugs too.

As for old code base, all cores are being used by MC, so the code can't be that old. Also, if 32-bit code is written "properly," recompiling to 64-bit does not require a complete ground up rewrite.

If you don't realize that Avid is still the most popular NLE amongst professional editors, then you simply lack credibility.
 
BRANDON JAMESON said:
MC 6. whatever is so buggy even AVID advises you not to install it!!!!
Click to expand...

Huh? Blatantly untrue.

BRANDON JAMESON said:
I am an AVID editor and AVID CLEARLY is concentrating on AUDIO right now.
Click to expand...

Not my perception at all. Is that why they just released DS11?

BRANDON JAMESON said:
If you can find 4 working pro editors , who arent paid spokespeople, that find MC or Symphony 6.?
Click to expand...

Not sure what Bunim-Murray is running but it's a brand new installation, so that's probably 150 seats right there. I'm in Orlando, and most of the newer Avid installations are on 6.0. Definitely more than 4. Not sure what your issues with MC6 are and I certainly don't deny there are bugs, but you are making it sound far worse than it is. Though the nature of bugs and their effect is dependent on the type of workflow you have. So maybe it's impacting you more than it does the editors I know or on my own systems.

Listen, I'm not trying to offend here, but merely reacting to what sounds like a lot of questionable hyperbole to me.

- Oliver
 
My offer stands, Oliver.

I DO enjoy how you take parts of my quotes and leave the rest very much alone....

So lets look at yours:


"Not sure what Bunim-Murray is running but it's a brand new installation"

"Not sure what your issues with MC6 are and I certainly don't deny there are bugs."



Find me when you can deliver instead of spouting random nonsense that youre not sure about, clearly have very little first-hand knowledge or a clear grasp on.

Oh, and Peter...FIND that special OS for me, will ya?

Thanks!
 
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