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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Random Audio Level Dropout...

A

Aaron Hucker

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Shooting Interviews on Epic,

Balanced Mic line in to Channel 1. While recording, in the headphones I noticed the audio occasionally dropped in level for about a second, then returned and worked fine. Happened about 5-8 times during the day, I didn't sweat it as I had my Zoom recording off the same mic (Y cable off the mic to both Zoom and Epic)

Got the footage transcoded, the same audio dropouts I heard in the headphones are reflected in the Prores Files. However, there are no dropouts on the Zoom files.

The small sections that had dropouts on the Epic can be saved (there is waveforms there, just MUCH lower then the rest).

Anyone else encounter this?
I'm really looking forward to the day I can actually rely on Epic's audio (hopefully)
 
It might be the lens data connector bug... if you tape them it does not do the drop.. the latest firmware should solve it as well.
 
Which mount did you have on there Aaron?

When you compare the two files are the areas of drop out on the scratch track relatively hot on the Zoom file?
 
It was on... and by default it seams. (the limiter)
 
I've got the Optitek nikon mount. No 'smart' contacts.
 
Yes I just experienced this today! WTF I am really upset!@#%

I had an interview with Oakley today with an Olympian, and I had some really weird small drop downs - down but not out, it can be fixed in post (I think) - for a price. Never heard this before. I have a lot of experience with RED audio. This was Epic Ver 30.0.0 The camera headphone jack was overly emphasizing the effect, an effect I did not think could be fixed while monitoring live. But it was not so bad in the edit bay. Which makes me wonder about the headphone output amp, but also glad it not so good because I noticed the effect quicker.

A lot of people would not notice in Redcine X Pro on speakers, it sounded okay but not great, on headphones from the computer it was very noticeable and not ideal. I have had worse audio situations but they were environmental and not camera related. It will probably work for the edit. I have never had an audio problem with the Epic before today. I can't rely on the fact that changes in builds will be similar in behavior in audio to what I have had before.

Most of the Oakley shoots are over cranked action with no audio. It is just when I am on the line and it is a synch audio situation a problem comes up. I have ESP I guess for these audio issues so no telling how many shoots have been done recently with problems.

Today was the worst RED Epic audio location situation I have had, I was sweating (like a steam room) bullets and all of my alternatives went to pieces. I am just going to make a a Y out cable and record to a second source from my mixer as a routine from now on. Never had a problem before but today when I am recording a Gold Medalist and apologizing all over the place for delays with gear I thought I knew. It was a 2 hour anxiety attack. One never to be repeated. Another alternative is to buy a PIX from Sound Devices to get audio and a ProRes in one pass for easy post synch.

So i updated all of Oakley's 4 Epics to 30.0.0 when it came out; for a bunch of 3d shoots we were doing at the time. Those were all off speed shoots. This is the first synch audio shoot I can remember on this build. After this interview I went into the audio menus and saw the limiter activated which I never turned on. I don't think this should be turned on by default as it seems aggressive if this is the culprit of the audio issue I had today. Really this is a significant departure form the previous build and put me in peril.

Brian Ferguson
briferg.com
 
The problem is a change in the audio build behavior without a heads up. There should be some testing of the effects of a software change and a notice before we continue on that path that we are led on.

It is not a reasonable assumption that if something new is turned on that the effects are alright. When they either not tested, or reported to the user. I do this for real money. If a change in camera recording behavior puts me or the owner of the cameras in financial jeopardy without a heads up, is either a lack of testing or knowledge. Reshoots are costly. If the limiter was turned on without an alert, you are suddenly noticing weird audio behavior. Why did not someone test this under field situations?
 
Brian, you should contact Red support and take care of this. I'm positive this is a solvable problem. (But I do agree that the normal boot-up mode for the limiter should be off.)

Having said that, be aware that I'm a strong proponent for always recording audio separately, and syncing it up later on. But I say this about every digital camera. The only exception would be dangerous situations like war zones, hidden cameras, crime scenes, or a non-essential shoot like B-roll. For anything else: use a separate sound recorder for optimum results. But that goes for Alexa, Canon, Nikon, Panavision, Red, Sony, everything.
 
Marc Wielage said:
Brian, you should contact Red support and take care of this. I'm positive this is a solvable problem. (But I do agree that the normal boot-up mode for the limiter should be off.)

Having said that, be aware that I'm a strong proponent for always recording audio separately, and syncing it up later on. But I say this about every digital camera. The only exception would be dangerous situations like war zones, hidden cameras, crime scenes, or a non-essential shoot like B-roll. For anything else: use a separate sound recorder for optimum results. But that goes for Alexa, Canon, Nikon, Panavision, Red, Sony, everything.
Click to expand...

Thanks Marc

I don't know what the changes will be in different builds. I will now always record a separate back-up. I might also use my RED one as the other recorder if needed; it is a workhorse. I know the RED ONE Audio but I do not know the Epic Audio as much. It has been Mic Level, recent changes to internal limiters. The old RED One might be one of the best on hand 4 channel 48khz audio recorders I have ever had!

Being a big RED One audio user starting with my camera #12. I have only had an issue regarding camera audio with Epic.
 
I'm sympathetic, Brian. I have faith that Red will eventually solve the problem, and I know they have their hands full covering video issues and shipping all the accessories first.

Even on modern audio recorders, we avail ourselves of all the backups whenever possible. All the pro recorders (Sound Devices, Zaxcom, Aaton Cantar, Fostex, Nagra, Tascam) have the ability to record to at least two different media formats simultaneously. It's been rare that I've needed the backup, but it happens. On quite a few shoots, I've also been rolling the built-in 2-track recorder in the Sound Devices 552 -- sort of the belt and double-suspenders technique. If it's a mission-critical shoot, giving yourself a safety net is a wise move.

Contact me through my website if you ever need some free advice; I'd be glad to help if I can.
 
I know the RED one had a built in limiter. What I don't get is why this one in the Epic sounds so bad? It kicks in at a really low level. I would never turn this on, it is very aggressive.
 
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