All Professionals...

[Jan Reiff]

i got my red one 4 years ago.
yesterday i played with the raws of the first days 2008.
redcolor 3, flut, and and and ...

it´s pretty good to see that this "old" footage is state of art today, and in the future.

i compared all this to some films we did on a hvx or varicam in the time. honestly, i don´t have to talk more about ...

there was no better decision possible for us here to go the "red" way of digital film after leaving 35mm as main format ...

cheers to california

 

[Will Keir]

It's not like every SATA interface is going to disappear off the planet in 20 years.

You might be surprised. Floppy drives that hold what, 2mb or something? I remember those days. I had a couple games that required 9 floppy discs. Don't forget, most floppy drives I ever owned went out in a year or two. They were cheep, but they were unreliable.

 

[Will Keir]

Jim you know I'm RED to the core baby. RED is the color of life, it's the color of blood, life exposed to the open world, the life water of human existence.

Storage is Moore's law. Better all the time. The question is what did you acquire in?

Jim

 

[Mike Halper]

You might be surprised. Floppy drives that hold what, 2mb or something? I remember those days. I had a couple games that required 9 floppy discs. Don't forget, most floppy drives I ever owned went out in a year or two. They were cheep, but they were unreliable.

You are misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying you'll want to use floppy drives now or that you'd want to use a current SATA hard drive 20 years from now. My point was that if you found a floppy disk in your closet today that had an important document from 20 years ago on it that you want to recover, you could. And 20 years from now, if you have Red media on a SATA hard drive from today, you could recover that data, assuming the hard drive still works (which is why you want to spin it up every 6 months and check the data). And if/when a better storage medium comes out between now and then you can move your data to that new medium.

 

[Will Keir]

Mike, your method must be a pain in the butt. Spin em up every 6 months. Film negatives last 50+ years and you don't have to spin them up every 6 months.

Hey, have you ever found a floppy from 20 years ago you needed an important document from? Theoretical at best, I'm thinking practical, like how practically do I save my life's work for the future.

You are misunderstanding my point. I'm not saying you'll want to use floppy drives now or that you'd want to use a current SATA hard drive 20 years from now. My point was that if you found a floppy disk in your closet today that had an important document from 20 years ago on it that you want to recover, you could. And 20 years from now, if you have Red media on a SATA hard drive from today, you could recover that data, assuming the hard drive still works (which is why you want to spin it up every 6 months and check the data). And if/when a better storage medium comes out between now and then you can move your data to that new medium.

 

[Will Keir]

we lost Jim.

 

[Mike Halper]

Mike, your method must be a pain in the butt. Spin em up every 6 months. Film negatives last 50+ years and you don't have to spin them up every 6 months.

Kodak isn't a film company anymore. So film is essentially dead, so you need to find a solution that will work without film.

Hey, have you ever found a floppy from 20 years ago you needed an important document from? Theoretical at best, I'm thinking practical, like how practically do I save my life's work for the future.

It was an extreme example. So is that fact that you'd still have that data on a SATA hard drive 20 years from now. And no, my method is not a pain in the butt, and in fact it gets simpler and simpler as hard drive capacity increases because I can move multiple drives to one drive as time goes on. So every few years when I'm checking the drives anyway I replace them with a less number of higher capacity drives. And then it's even easier to check the drives the next time since there's a less number of them.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Storage is Moore's law. Better all the time. The question is what did you acquire in?

The problem I worry about is: even if you acquire in 4K (or 5K or 8K), how many people are going to go back to the original files for remastering in the future?

If you haven't already, read the Academy's report on The Digital Dilemma. Scary stuff. I know of at least three cases (not anecdotal) where we had trouble recovering 2K and 4K files on LTO and DTF tapes, and these were major studio projects. I'm concerned about people who will master at 1080, that's the only way the movie will ever get released, and then years later, even if they wanted to remaster at 4K... the files are gone, scattered, disorganized, or in a format that will no longer play.

In a related situation: Jim Cameron has admitted that they threw away most of the visual effects files for Titanic, so when the 3D conversion was done a year ago, they had to do it all from the final cut-negative elements. And this was the second most-successful film of all time, from a studio (and a filmmaker) known for technical expertise. Even they weren't thinking about future obsolescence. It's a concern.

Me personally, I won't say that 4K will never happen, because it clearly is. I'm just not convinced it'll be important in the long run for all TV shows and all films. Big films, absolutely. But do I need to see Jersey Shore in 4K? Price Is Right? The NBC Nightly News?

Given unlimited bandwidth and a great economy, no problem. I'd be happy if I could just see ordinary 1080p with little or no compression on the net. It still ain't there, not even today.

 

[Mike Halper]

The thing is I'm sure no one working on Titanic considered that it would need additional work done to it down the road, so they never thought to save those elements. Now that movies can easily be given a new life, and continuously are, hopefully producers and studios will think about that more when they decide what to save and what not to save. They should save everything in my opinion. Fortunately it's a matter of saving data and not a bunch of optical prints that actually take of a lot of physical space and can get lost easier. Not that a hard drive, LTO, DTF, or whatever else they store the data on can't be lost, but I think you understand what I'm saying.

 

[shashbugu]

The problem I worry about is: even if you acquire in 4K (or 5K or 8K), how many people are going to go back to the original files for remastering in the future?

If you haven't already, read the Academy's report on The Digital Dilemma. Scary stuff. I know of at least three cases (not anecdotal) where we had trouble recovering 2K and 4K files on LTO and DTF tapes, and these were major studio projects. I'm concerned about people who will master at 1080, that's the only way the movie will ever get released, and then years later, even if they wanted to remaster at 4K... the files are gone, scattered, disorganized, or in a format that will no longer play.

In a related situation: Jim Cameron has admitted that they threw away most of the visual effects files for Titanic, so when the 3D conversion was done a year ago, they had to do it all from the final cut-negative elements. And this was the second most-successful film of all time, from a studio (and a filmmaker) known for technical expertise. Even they weren't thinking about future obsolescence. It's a concern.

Me personally, I won't say that 4K will never happen, because it clearly is. I'm just not convinced it'll be important in the long run for all TV shows and all films. Big films, absolutely. But do I need to see Jersey Shore in 4K? Price Is Right? The NBC Nightly News?

Given unlimited bandwidth and a great economy, no problem. I'd be happy if I could just see ordinary 1080p with little or no compression on the net. It still ain't there, not even today.

rethink your last comment. Tvland has almost stopped rerunning old tv shows because the cost of restoration by their suppliers is almost as much as producing new shows. An most of those sho$k tv' and websites aes were originated in 1" 16 and 35mm but the 3/4 transfers were shitty. a

 

[Will Keir]

but just 12 years ago most of us where on dial up internet. 33.6k was the best I could muster without paying a fortune for an ISDN line at 128k. 1080p online steam is already here, and will become widely available. 4k steaming online in the next year to the privileged if not already and in 5 years 4k steaming all over the world. It's all just an estimated guess, we've already come along way. I'm happy now.

 

[Perry Ho]

Thanks Jim & Profesional Red Team!

Just wondering when will you and your team gonna traveling to Mainland China to show the local DOP & Directors which is the right camera they going to choose to use for their projects...
Can't wait...

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I miss : we believe in advanced color science.

Pat

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

The real problem I forsee is media storage. Film degrades slowly, with a life of 50-75 years aprox? Even the best hard drives are obsolete in 5 years. 10 years, not a chance. Not to mention the change in media formats over the last 15 years. The next 15 years... I don't wanna think about it.

So how am I going to store my prized 5k work for 20 years down the line and more important, what storage format will I entrust it in. This is a question I have no answers for but I need them. For now, I'll just upgrade to the latest drives every 2-3 years. At least storage becomes less expensive as time goes on.

if you really like the durability of film, just put your footage on it for long term storage.. also SLC flash should be a good option to store long term, i know both are expensive options, but, its possible.. one may also think about the cloud..

 

[Hussain Neissi]

True , thanks Jim.

 

[Erich Ocean]

After NAB I never felt more secure with choosing Red.

I feel the same way, and said pretty much the exact same thing to my wife.

I know Jim's not going to go crazy at some point, let his foot up off the gas, or screw us over in some way.

That means a lot to me.

Thanks Jim, for making that happen with RED.

Best, Erich

 

[Vincent Accardi]

Can I get an AMEN! Jim you're awesome! Thank you so much for treating the RED community and friends, greatly appreciated.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Just placing our 1st ads now...

Jim

This just made my day.

 

[Bing Bailey]

Storage is something I wish red would solve since the resolution and file sizes are going up. LTO6 coming out this year will do 8TB compressed per tape. but even that's sounding like not enough. we need something as reliable as film for long term storage and archival and we need it like yesterday. LTO8 is due out in 2016, that will be 32TB but the way red is going I think file sizes might have doubled again by then.


Spinning harddisks are not a reliable way to archive anything

 

[sergio arguello]

RED is the color of life. Of passion. Of aggression. And war. It is the color of love... and excitement, speed and strength. What other color is there?

Jim

Yeah i noticed alot of changes in everyone equipment in color scheme from angenuiex to handheld rigs to cranes, and canon always had a redline but now ita all over the place...between You, tiger woods, and Micheal Jordan( the gretest one) have painted 20th century marketing with two colors RED/Black oh forgot federer wins more when in that color scheme too!!!