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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

I give up

You can always use AMA to link to for quickly finding the footage and transcode from there. The latest version of the plug-in now supports audio from Epic/Scarlet which may be your solution for now for the audio. It will support the RMD so color decisions can be done in Redcine X. For offline work, 1/2 rez transcode into DNxHD 36 software transcode is faster than in Redcine X.

And question for ALbert above - what in Avid is proprietary that doesn't meet your needs? DNxHD codecs are free, encode/decode on OSX and Windows. DNxHD itself is a SMPTE standard so content owners know they can always access their footage if needed and is not depend on a vendor (ProRes for example, amongst many), AAF and MXF are open standards to describe source and compositional metadata. And just because a codec opens up in QuickTime doesn't mean it's an open format. The way to many complaints about gamma in the QuickTime container is one example of companies trying to control one aspect of the codec container with no real open standards on how to do so. Much if it is done via trickery.


Michael
 
Maybe you should give up.
I had no problems delivering to any other client/plataform since build 13 (bad memories goes here)...
Now, disregard specifics workflows, what you are saying is you find trouble opening R3D's in Redcine, applying basic corrections and exporting that???
Again... Maybe you should give up.

Cheers!
 
Gaston Fazio said:
I had no problems delivering to any other client/plataform since build 13 (bad memories goes here)...
Now, disregard specifics workflows, what you are saying is you find trouble opening R3D's in Redcine, applying basic corrections and exporting that???
!
Click to expand...
Working with RED since build 13 for me too... and no issues so far.. using Avid|DS throughout

d
 
MichaelP said:
You can always use AMA to link to for quickly finding the footage and transcode from there. The latest version of the plug-in now supports audio from Epic/Scarlet which may be your solution for now for the audio. It will support the RMD so color decisions can be done in Redcine X. For offline work, 1/2 rez transcode into DNxHD 36 software transcode is faster than in Redcine X.

And question for ALbert above - what in Avid is proprietary that doesn't meet your needs? DNxHD codecs are free, encode/decode on OSX and Windows. DNxHD itself is a SMPTE standard so content owners know they can always access their footage if needed and is not depend on a vendor (ProRes for example, amongst many), AAF and MXF are open standards to describe source and compositional metadata. And just because a codec opens up in QuickTime doesn't mean it's an open format. The way to many complaints about gamma in the QuickTime container is one example of companies trying to control one aspect of the codec container with no real open standards on how to do so. Much if it is done via trickery.


Michael
Click to expand...
Hi Michael
I apriciate your knoledge and passion for Avid, but
The initial post was about editing r3d nativly at which AVID actually (based on my trial period only) sucs.
 
Avid is most of the way there, but still has issues. FCPX? Just cannot get my head around it. Haven't tried PP for a few versions. I know I should but couldn't stand the older versions. Which leaves FCP7 - and I've never been a fan.

But all of this isn't restricted to Red. AVCHD issues. P2 issues. XDCam is fine with the right gear but not cheap. Honestly, IMHO, it's called post production. Research, flexibility, workarounds. It's been like that since we got rid (thankfully) of tape. And even then, digitising... People now complain if ingest takes real time. WTF? Recently had HDV and DV jobs. You're talking 1.5x RT. Personally I find the Red workflow one of the smoothest. No, it doesn't edit itself and you do need to pay some attention but it's so very simple when compared to other formats that yield nowhere near as beautiful images.

BTW, anyone working with Red to broadcast, see Mark Toia's workflow. Easy as pie and you cannot argue with the results he gets.
 
hostely I must admit it's quiet a mess, whith everyone updating, technology starting from scratch over and over again.
If you look at all different packages, indeed, even if you spent a lot of money, nothing is perfect.
I've been looking for some time right now to find a 100% workflow that could last for editing , s3d , 4k , combining editing, compositing , color grading and finishing; and it's a struggle to decide whether to take a step back sometimes,
and convert r3d files to eliminate post-production issues , especially when thinking also about keeping a business alive and not losing too much time for achieving something.
If some vendors (not red off course), would have taken red more serious 4 years ago, a lot could have changed in that timeframe. tell you , still looking for a match between, ease, speed, comfort and less headaches.
 
albert rudnicki said:
Audio export to protools, have you tried it on a larger project?
nesting ?
project manager
Round trips from other finishing solutions.
timeline flow, and direct output to ref.monitor.
.
Click to expand...

Al-
-Audio export via OMF direct to ProTools works great... This is what we did for our latest PBS show with approx 12 condensed channels of mono and stereo audio.
-Nesting is easy as well...just take one timeline and drop it into a new timeline. Done and done.
-Project Manager... Not sure wht you mean by this, but PPro is fairly robust at organizing/cataloguing its projects, and allowing you to customize...can you explain what specific capabilities you are looking for?
-Round trip: no program is perfect, but if you finish within AE, the process is SO easy its almost hilarious. You can easily open PPRO projects directly in AE, and EXPORT AE projects directyl back to premiere, as well as simply dynamic linking the two two each other. If not using AE, EDL/XML is fully supported, for easy passage back and forth.
-Timeline Flow: not sure what you meanby this, but I love PPro's timeline... can you describe whagt you mean by this?
-Direct Output to ref. monitor: This is entirely driven by your choice of I/O hardware and its drivers... PPro has alll the hooks, and with the right combo, works like a champ.

I've been using Premiere (along with just about every other edit system ever created) since version 1 roughly 20 years ago... and while it hasn't always been the best tool for every job in the past, its pretty damn specatcular right now.
 
Shane Betts said:
But all of this isn't restricted to Red. AVCHD issues. P2 issues. XDCam is fine with the right gear but not cheap. Honestly, IMHO, it's called post production. Research, flexibility, workarounds.
Click to expand...

PPro also works natively with just about every format out there... including P2 and XDCAM. The awesome thing about working with R3Ds in PPro is that you actually work with the R3Ds. And while RCX-Pro is awesome, you can go right from camera to PPro timeline, and perform your first one-light color corrections (nondestructively of course, as you are working purely off your meta data...) on a clip by clip, OR multiclip basis right from within PPro. For effects shots, being able to open/create one lights, and test comps right from the SSD within AE/PPro is pretty effing amazing...
 
CK Olsen said:
PPro also works natively with just about every format out there... including P2 and XDCAM. The awesome thing about working with R3Ds in PPro is that you actually work with the R3Ds. And while RCX-Pro is awesome, you can go right from camera to PPro timeline, and perform your first one-light color corrections (nondestructively of course, as you are working purely off your meta data...) on a clip by clip, OR multiclip basis right from within PPro. For effects shots, being able to open/create one lights, and test comps right from the SSD within AE/PPro is pretty effing amazing...
Click to expand...

This is what I have figured out to be best process for my non-complex projects as well
 
I'm not doing anything fancy, but the AE, PP, Redcine combo is pretty awesome.

We can use redcine to generate looks on set and then apply them to the R3D files- on set. Those follow the footage wherever it goes. Once in PP the look is still attached and can be tweaked. We edit and then just copy and paste the whole thing into AE if it is a short project that needs lots of color/ FX work. Or we pull the FX shots in as AE sequences nested in the PP project. Or go back and fourth in any number of ways.

Export and upload to YouTube for a million internet dollars.
 
Aside from the annoying installation process and re-installation from updates, the Premiere Pro CS5.5 has been a godsend for me. I can edit 5K R3Ds live on a 2008 Macbook Pro (If I wanted to). You can even access the RAW options and edit RMD without leaving the program. The big problem I have is quirks with getting a round trip with resolve (funky XML workarounds), and the delay in implementing new features in RED SDKs like REDColor/Gamma3 and alchemy. That said, I still would take all these quirks over switching to a more vanilla camera's workflow.
 
do your one lights in RCX.. export the codec youwant to fcp.. Edit away. when picture is locked, xml back to premiere pro / AE and conform /grade etc on the r3d files.. then export again to your preferred codec - for us its usually 4444
 
I love the Adobe suite. It works so well... of course every single piece of software has its quirks, but overall being able to work fairly seamlessly throughout the complete suite is, in a word, amazing.

My NLE background started with Adobe Premiere in '95 (previous to this I was editing in tape-to-tape edit bays where it was really cool if you could pull off a dissolve) and then went on to Avid (back then having an Avid meant getting work). About 5 years ago I switched back to Adobe and they've continued to impress me. If you talk about workflow and issues arising from that you should try doing all this with film. Try and do a matte or blue screen pass on film, and see what's involved with that! Or, go find an old ACE editing suite and start to think of the costs involved just to do a simple A/B roll, never mind adding a Chyron for a title or two or an ADO for that matter.

I am truly amazed at what you can do (post-wise) for under $5k. Add in the Scarlet at around $20k for a basic package and you've won the lottery! In the not to distant past playing in/at this level of game cost you mid to upper 6 figures.

Is there room for improvements? You bet! Adobe may not be the answer for everyone but it sure works very well for me.
 
I've never had everything translate perfectly between apps. It just seems to be par for the course that I have to create a spreadsheet report of all speed changes, composites, and flops coming out of FCP, adjust the timeline in weird ways to get the speed-changed clips back to their original speed on a new track without moving any other clips, take it into Resolve, and re-do flops and some composites, then render out shots for composites and speed changes separately to re-implement back in FCP, or in the case of speed changes, in AE then back to FCP because AE does a better job with Pixel Motion. I don't think problems like that will ever be solved completely... but Sequence Clip Reporter is a handy tool for FCP and PPro users to get a heads-up of what problems they might face!
 
Ah, not nearly as much flaming as I expected. Ha-ha. Just a moment of pure frustration. 3 days lost while installing and reinstalling software till things work again as deadlines loom. There are a lot of great software and hardware. All of the above mentioned have phenomenal options and deliver. It's the bugs that keep on and on that drive me crazy. But more importantly (before anyone gives me the speech of how good we have it today - I've cut on gangs, to moviolas, steenbecks, Avid, FCP, Media 100, Adobe and the list goes on), we seem fixated on bells and whistles and not perfecting the basics. I just want core basics. We seemed to have had it for years, cut, grade and deliver, but I feel we've gone backwards with all the porting and back and forths just to get an end product - while stewing in frustration for things either don't conform, or some other issue has come up. I do appreciate the porting to other software for the best image, but sometimes simplicity is just... nice. Some one build it... you will have at least one customer.
 
albert rudnicki said:
Hi Michael
I apriciate your knoledge and passion for Avid, but
The initial post was about editing r3d nativly at which AVID actually (based on my trial period only) sucs.
Click to expand...

I was responding to your comment about Avid being "closed", not about "performance" which I agree can be hit and miss depending on system configuration, but even in the best of set up can be challenging.

Michael
 
yes it is:)
and Thanks again for your contribution and great share of your knowledge, been following much of your posts lately.
Best

Albert
 
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