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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Tinker Tailor" vs "Dragon Tattoo"

Tom Lowe

Tom Lowe

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I enjoyed "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy." The film is kind of slow, but well made, with top-notch acting. Like "Dragon Tattoo," the audience cannot really solve the mystery on their own, which limits the film's whodunnit appeal. Like "Tattoo," this movie (shot on 35mm chemical film) also went through a 4K Digital Intermediate process, but "Tinker Tailor's" image quality suffers by way of comparison, due to extremely visible grain and what I can only refer to as noise in the darker shots. "Dragon's" image (shot on 4.5K and 5K Red cameras) was monumentally cleaner, sharper, more detailed, and more appealing, at least to me. Perhaps they added grain to "Tinker" in order to match the era in which the story takes place?

By the way, Tom Hardy's ridiculous wig in this film is almost worth the price of admission alone!
 
I've been hearing good things about "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy" and plan to check it out in the next couple days. Plus I really want to see "Dragon Tattoo" again because it was pretty awesome.
 
I agree Tom! Some of the grain in "Tinker, Tailor" felt very artificial and excessive at times. The grain felt very large compared the fine detail of the image.
 
you'd be surprised how much grain exists in the best film stock, with perfect lighting, before it goes through grain removal. there's a LOT. they might have not just done as much of a grain removal to keep a certain aesthetic. or they might have even gone as far as pushing the stock or getting a grainier stock to do that too. it's funny how grain can be seen as the enemy and as a coveted look all at the same time.
 
I'll have to check this one out, not sure how bad the grain is, can't really tell from this pic you posted. But, a nice example of crisp, beautiful imagery to me that was shot on film and DI in 4K was Moneyball. There is grain visible but its not overwhelming as you say Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy is not to mention a great film. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1210166/technical
 
Ian Vertovec said:
I agree Tom! Some of the grain in "Tinker, Tailor" felt very artificial and excessive at times. The grain felt very large compared the fine detail of the image.
Click to expand...

By the way, great work on "Dragon Tattoo," Ian!
 
All through Tinker Tailor I thought there was a problem with the projector, I've never seen a film which was so distractingly noisy. After the film I looked up the process and couldn't believe it was shot on film. That was digital noise not film grain. Also, it seemed like there was no true black.
 
Michael Millichamp said:
Did anyone else notice in TGWTDT, the club scene was very very noisy?
Click to expand...

Yes I did notice, however to me if felt very naturally so.

I thought TTSS was a good film, however I don't think that it was great. I am a lover of slowly paced stories—counting Tarkovsky in my top 3 directors—it was to me overly slow and droll. Had it not been for the massive amount of acting talent in the film it would have really suffered. I am a fan of the book, of the TV series also so I am aware of the story and the subject matter very well, but I don't think it was the best adaptation.

As for the look of the film it had a vintage style but I can't say as I overly noticed surplas of grain. TGWDT was VERY clean for the most part, but not artificially so. I definitely didn't feel overtly digital to me.
 
I loved the look of tinker.. It added to period piece feel. I dont think there is anything wrong with grain. The was was dreadfully slow however, and if it werent for the visuals i would have fell asleep. The average age of the audience was 70!
 
My wife and I went to see Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and when it was over we "slipped " into The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo which had just started. The visual difference between the two films was staggering. I understand the TTSS was a time piece with desaturated colors and added grain but TGWTDT was beautiful. Solid blacks, high dynamic range no film gate shake. I felt like I was "watching" TTSS and I felt like I was "in" TGWTDT. The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo was truly EPIC!
 
The look was clearly intentional and meant to be somewhat retro 70's -- they used the grainiest Fuji stocks they could get, underexposed it, and smoked almost every interior to wash out the blacks. Personally I thought it looked great, very daring, particularly the first image which was incredibly grainy and murky as someone knocks on John Hurt's door at night. I thought it took guts for the DP to make an image look that rough. It's a bit silly to compare it to "Dragon Tattoo" when the visual design is so clearly different. It's like saying that "Saving Private Ryan" looks rougher than "The Thin Red Line", which it does, but not by mistake or lack of skill or poor use of technology.

I don't think every movie has to be as sharp and grain-free as possible, that would be rather limiting for artists if that was their only option.

I'll be sad when the day comes when the only look all movies have is a grain-free high-resolution digital image.
 
I have not yet seen either picture. However, I have a suggestion about how we can examine the image quality of TTSS: buy the trailer from someone and scans few frames. I couldn't find a trailer on eBay but I did find someone selling strips of film cells. eBay item ID is 270892061786.

I am a bit of a film fetishist and I have a collection of 35mm boxes (e.g. Agfachrome), cassettes (e.g. High Speed Ektachrome) and movie trailers (e.g. Indiana Jones, Lost Highway).

This kind of examination would probably make some people shake their heads but that's just the way I am. :-)

BTW one reason that I'm not motivated to go to the movies is that most cinemas where I live seems to have 2K projectors only. What's the damned point if it isn't real film or 4K?
 
David Mullen ASC said:
The look was clearly intentional and meant to be somewhat retro 70's -- they used the grainiest Fuji stocks they could get, underexposed it, and smoked almost every interior to wash out the blacks. Personally I thought it looked great, very daring, particularly the first image which was incredibly grainy and murky as someone knocks on John Hurt's door at night. I thought it took guts for the DP to make an image look that rough. It's a bit silly to compare it to "Dragon Tattoo" when the visual design is so clearly different. It's like saying that "Saving Private Ryan" looks rougher than "The Thin Red Line", which it does, but not by mistake or lack of skill or poor use of technology.

I don't think every movie has to be as sharp and grain-free as possible, that would be rather limiting for artists if that was their only option.

I'll be sad when the day comes when the only look all movies have is a grain-free high-resolution digital image.
Click to expand...

David,
I agree with you completely
 
Tinker was better. Hard to compare the two films in terms of cinematography. Both were beautifully shot. By the way, the airplane shot in Tinker was the best shot of the year in my opinion. Those who have seen it know what I am talking about.
 
Hoyt van Hoytema, the DP on Tinker. Tailor... is known for mucking about his images intentionally, particularly in period pieces. His last major release was "The Fighter" which went through our shop. He shot that in 35mm 2-perf and the actual fight on Betacam to better mimic the look and feel of the period. Tinker, Tailor... takes place in the early 1970s and as such the look is "as we remember it" from what we recall of films of that period. In vogue at that time was flashing of stocks and under-rating them to get low contrast, grainy images, often with a particularly gritty feel. An excellent example of this would be The French Connection. In the recreation of such a look and feel I think that Van Hoytema did a terrific job, and it is understandable why the cinematography has been lauded and he has been nominated for several awards.
 
Saw both over the holidays. Thought they were quite different yet brilliant in their own way.

TGWTDT = Me avoiding Sweden at all costs during winter. :scared:

Tinker, Tailor's on the other hand definitely scored points with regards to period 'feel'. The smokiness and high grain reminded me of what a city like Glasgow would look in the 70s and 80s. Heck the streets of London and the 'Circus' were almost characters in their own right, complete with personalities.
 
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