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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zeiss CP.2

The lenses we have are now all vantage... And my suggestion is to buy something and use it for now. I doubt that lenses will be as good as investment as they used to be. Our K-35's are from the 60's and is better high speed primes than most but I think soon, very soon there will be digital lenses with built in focus and iris control, that is more suitable for 3D work and remote focus/ auto focus etc. Then when the data actually gets into the Cine lenses then old glass will have charm still but they will not sell for as much.

Now it's only LDS and such.. data out of the lens, when we start feeding also data into the lenses then that's a game changer. Kind of like for the cameras.

We had or film camera for several years and it was old when we bought it. Then suddenly about 3 years ago the price dropped to almost nothing I think the same will happen to lenses that can not be adopted into the digital world.

Just my 5 cents.
 
Björn Benckert said:
The lenses we have are now all vantage... And my suggestion is to buy something and use it for now. I doubt that lenses will be as good as investment as they used to be. Our K-35's are from the 60's and is better high speed primes than most but I think soon, very soon there will be digital lenses with built in focus and iris control, that is more suitable for 3D work and remote focus/ auto focus etc. Then when the data actually gets into the Cine lenses then old glass will have charm still but they will not sell for as much.

Now it's only LDS and such.. data out of the lens, when we start feeding also data into the lenses then that's a game changer. Kind of like for the cameras.

We had or film camera for several years and it was old when we bought it. Then suddenly about 3 years ago the price dropped to almost nothing I think the same will happen to lenses that can not be adopted into the digital world.

Just my 5 cents.
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Can't say I will be disappointed if lens prices drop. I'd love to pick up some more glass down the line and if I can get it for less, that will make me happy. :-)
 
Brian Iannone said:
Okay everyone, I'm now considering getting the 18-85mm RPZ. Any detailed opinions?
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Although the lens is awesome its not great for handheld work since it is so heavy. You said you were mainly interested in documentaries so I'd personally recommend the Red 17-50 zoom and the older 50-150 like Mark said. Much lighter than the 18-85. Now if your mainly doing tripod work or locked off shots than the 18-85 is awesome. I love the 18-85 but its weight is its only downfall. You will end up spending less for the 17-50 and 50-150 than a set of primes and you have more focal lengths plus the ease of not having to swap out lenses.
 
Matt Ryan said:
Although the lens is awesome its not great for handheld work since it is so heavy. You said you were mainly interested in documentaries so I'd personally recommend the Red 17-50 zoom and the older 50-150 like Mark said. Much lighter than the 18-85. Now if your mainly doing tripod work or locked off shots than the 18-85 is awesome. I love the 18-85 but its weight is its only downfall. You will end up spending less for the 17-50 and 50-150 than a set of primes and you have more focal lengths plus the ease of not having to swap out lenses.
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I just checked the weight on the lens on RED's site, and you're right, it's quite heavy! At nearly 10 lbs., it appears to be RED's heaviest lens. While that's something I'm now taking into consideration, I'm not too concerned as I'll almost always have the camera on a tripod. For the time where I need to go handheld, that will indeed be tricky though. :)

The times you did handheld work with it, did you have the camera on a shoulder-mount-style rig?
 
Brian Iannone said:
I just checked the weight on the lens on RED's site, and you're right, it's quite heavy! At nearly 10 lbs., it appears to be RED's heaviest lens. While that's something I'm now taking into consideration, I'm not too concerned as I'll almost always have the camera on a tripod. For the time where I need to go handheld, that will indeed be tricky though. :)

The times you did handheld work with it, did you have the camera on a shoulder-mount-style rig?
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We couldn't afford any extras so I just put it on my shoulder bare and used the rods as my hand grip. Not comfortable but it got the job done.
 
it's 10 pounds before you use lens support which I think you will find beneficial. So add the weight of 15mm or 19mm rods and a lens support bracket. All included its twice the weight of the camera and front heavy!
 
Regarding supporting the RPZ 18-85mm... I'll have the Scarlet mounted on RED's Dovetail Quick Release Platform with two 19mm DSMC Universal Mounts connected on both sides with19mm CF 2' rods through it. What lens support piece should I use to attach under the lens onto the rods? Also, how does the lens height work with lens support systems on rails? I've been looking at photos of other people's rigs, and they seem to all have their rods at a certain height.
 
Brian Iannone said:
I'm going to be purchasing some new lenses soon, and have been looking at Zeiss' CP.2 series.
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Stop right there. Now back away slowly...

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the CP.2's Color rendition doesn't match across the set. Wide aperture doesn't match across the set. Sharpness doesn't match across the set. The 18mm is a turd of a lens. Artificially crippled irises on the 50 and 85 (even compared to the previous release of the CP's). You can have the exact same optics with a set of ZF lenses. The optics are not bad, but for a $37~$45K "basic" set of primes that you often see for the CP.2's, I don't feel you're getting a very good value. The RPP's are much better lenses all around, other than the heft of the 35mm and wider. For roughly the same money as the CP.2's I would recommend the Cooke /i Panchros unless you have to have faster than T2.8. Or take a look at the new Illumina T1.3's if you need the speed. Personally I don't shoot much more open than about T3 most of the time, so the RPP's give me all the light I need and then some. Here and there I might need all I can get, and I can usually still get it with the RPP's. Or I'll rent a Master Prime or two if I really need to make up the difference.

If you do go with the CP.2's (or some cine-modded ZF's for that matter), get the 18 only if you must. Did I mention that while the CP's cover FF35, the 18mm does not? Yeah, it doesn't. For the 50mm, you want the updated 50mm macro version. Their standard 50mm isn't anything to write home about. Ouch, it sounds like I'm bashing the CP.2's... Yes. Yes, I am... I seriously do not like them. I was reminded of this yet again less than 2 weeks ago when I had a two-day shoot using them. Because the client rented them as they refused to let me use the RPP's. You know, because "they heard that RED lenses have issues and Zeiss are way better". I offered to do some comparison shots for them and would let them shoot my RPP's if they liked them better. They weren't interested...

As others have pointed out, you can change the mount on the CP.2's... But don't get too excited there. It's not a filed conversion sort of thing. It's a conversion that involves a lens tech in a clean work environment that can change out mounts and re-collimate the lenses. Personally, I would much rather change the mount on the camera than mess with the mount on the lenses. Most people who buy the CP.2's will probably never change the mount. But you can order them with PL, Canon EOS or Nikon F mount and could convert them at a later date if you needed to. IMO, it's not enough of a feature to compensate for their other shortcomings.

The other advantages to the CP.2's are the relatively compact size and low weight. They are a nice size... Good mechanics, too. Personally, if I was going to go with Zeiss lenses, I would spend the extra and go with Ultras. The old T2.1 standards are often a good bargain if you can find a set from a reasonable seller. The super-speeds are fast at T1.3, but not sharp at the wider apertures. And they tend to sell for more than they should... With some of the prices I've seen on super speed sets, I would rather just spend another 25~30% and pick up some Masters. I've been seeing several sets of Master Primes up for sale lately -- slumping economy and all that. Same with the Cooke S4's (beautiful lenses) -- some selling because they can't afford to keep and some selling because they're jumping to the S5's, which are amazing. But we're talking some seriously expensive glass when we get to that level anyway. If we're going to talk about those, we may as well mention the Leica Summilux C primes. If anyone has a spare $170K, I can help you spend it. ;)

Brian Iannone said:
Regarding supporting the RPZ 18-85mm... I'll have the Scarlet mounted on RED's Dovetail Quick Release Platform with two 19mm DSMC Universal Mounts connected on both sides with19mm CF 2' rods through it. What lens support piece should I use to attach under the lens onto the rods? Also, how does the lens height work with lens support systems on rails? I've been looking at photos of other people's rigs, and they seem to all have their rods at a certain height.
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Duclos lenses makes a nice support for the 18-85. Optitek has one as well. They may have a bridge mount to support it between the rods, otherwise Zacuto makes one. The old-style RED universal mount works great. The new one (RED 19mm Universal Mount) does not have a threaded hole in the center (WTF, RED???). It does however have an elongated hole that you can bolt through with a 1/4-20.
 
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Brian Iannone said:
Jeff, I'm constantly amazed at how helpful your posts always are. =)

Okay, no CP.2s for me... I shall back away slowly and stay away from them.
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You may want to try them for yourself to form your own opinion.

So, your opinion on the 18-85mm RPZ? :)
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Nice lens, often underrated. Not sure why RED didn't create a support for it or at least create mount points to attach one. The ones I mentioned from Duclos and Optitek use a ring that clamps. In addition to the bridge mount solution that Zacuto has for mounting such a support, they have a lens support of their own. Which isn't bad, but not as elegant as the other two. It uses their "zip gears", which are nothing more than a heavy-duty zip-tie, to strap the lens to the support.

The 18-85 has good field-illumination (illumination doesn't fall off in the corners). Or at least it's better in this regard than the Cooke 18-100 and other similar workhorse lenses. The bokeh isn't as pretty as the Cooke 18-100 or the Optimo 17-80, but it produces a nice image. I've seen some curious "donut-shaped" highlight spots with the lens here and there in the bokeh. Kinda interesting and even neat, but some people don't like them. Once again, borrow/rent one and test for yourself. Like most cinema-style zooms with this focal length range, it's a big lens. It's bigger than the EPIC/Scarlet brain and weighs about 2X as much.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Duclos lenses makes a nice support for the 18-85. Optitek has one as well. They may have a bridge mount to support it between the rods, otherwise Zacuto makes one. The old-style RED universal mount works great. The new one (RED 19mm Universal Mount) does not have a threaded hole in the center (WTF, RED???). It does however have an elongated hole that you can bolt through with a 1/4-20.
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The Zacuto bridget mount you're referring to, is this the one? http://store.zacuto.com/1/4-20-inch-Lens-Support.html

If one were to use a RED 19mm Universal Mount, they'd have to bolt through the elongated hole with a 1/4-20. While I think I may have an idea of what you mean, I'm not sure I understand that.

Also, would you happen to know of where I could find a photo of the old-style RED universal mount?
 
Hi Jeff,

RE your below quote about the CP.2's...

Jeff Kilgroe said:
For the 50mm, you want the updated 50mm macro version. Their standard 50mm isn't anything to write home about.
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Would this hold true and be your advice with the ZF 50mm? I keep hearing the CP.2s are essentially the same lenses rehoused so thinking it maybe the case.

Best Wishes

Lliam
 
I think it would, Lliam, the standard 50 would be the 50/1.4 but the 50/2 Makro-Planar is supposed to be really nice.
 
Also, Jeff, I contacted Duclos to ask about that support for the 18-85mm RPZ that you suggested, and I kind of like it. Now I'm just looking for a bridge mount to use with it. Duclos says that their support has a 3/8-16 threaded hole at the bottom.

I plan on going with a 19mm rod system to use with the Scarlet. Does anyone have a recommendation for the bridge mount?

By the way, in case anyone else is interested in Duclos' support for the 18-85mm RPZ, here's a larger photo of it. The photo on their website is a little small.

duclosrpz1885mmsupport.jpg
 
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