These movies and others were shot at 24fps so there's no need for EPIC envy

[Karim D. Ghantous]

I see that a few people are wondering whether or not Scarlet-X has the right balance of features for their needs. Well, I look at it this way: a lot of our favourite movies were shot at 24fps so if they were made today, they could be shot on Scarlets.

Just some:

Eraserhead

Jurassic Park

All Star Wars films (Empire had slowed motion, not slow motion)

All Indiana Jones films

Eyes Wide Shut

2001

Psycho

Now... Any questions?

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

Sure if you never shoot frame rates over 24fps you can use Scarlet for A camera on many productions. Its a great camera.

Now ... shooting over 24 is increasingly common.

If you pre-produce your projects properly you'll know if and when you need to shoot slow motion material.

I kind of love Scarlet, but I don't think I'll buy one. All of the movies I want to make require full resolution slow motion. Honestly I don't need 5x slower (120fps) all that often, but I really need 3x slower (72 fps) kind of a lot.

You might do things differently and thus have different needs. Even if you do need 120fps, you may find its just on a couple of shots and that you can hire an Epic body for those shoot days. (You already have every other component you need if you use Scarlet!)

If your name is Tarsem Singh or Zach Snyder ... get an Epic already!

So ... plan your shoots!

 

[Sascha Rossier]

he he ... to B honest ... im already fed up with all these 300fps slomo-shots flying around ... most of them don't support the story - just done because they can. And i don't think i have to go 48fps just because Cameron and Jackson do ;-) So 24 is fine ... 25 even better for TV-Stuff over here in Europe. Possible with Scarlet @ 4K and @ 3K even possible with HDRx enabled.

 

[AndrewThomas]

I would have liked to see 48fps at 4k on Scarlet...but that is really as much frames as I would be interested in. I really love the look of the half speed playback of 48fps on a 24fps timeline.

 

[Maik Müller]

To be honest, i think i just got spoiled a too much by two things, the incredible promising high framerates of that 3k-Scarlet and the early specs of Scarlet-S35/EPIC-S. Thats why Scarlet-X's specs don't sound that spectacular and a bit limiting to me. Which is crazy, because Scarlet-X is great.

I just had enough time to think about what i could do with that and now its not there.

But i agree for the most part 24fps or 48fps in 3k are enough for me.

And when we talk about more fps, i think the thing i dislike most is not being able to shoot motion without sensor-crop.

 

[Chris Puerstl]

I agree the 24 is really all you need.

I would of liked to see the 5k at 24 and 4k at 48fps, shooting film at 12fps at 5k is pointless unless all you really need are the stills. I hope that a future update will allow the scarlet to shot 5k at 24fps, better would be at 30 so you have a bit of a buffer if that even makes a difference in when using the red camera.

I am looking forward to getting my order.

 

[Brant Hadfield]

Yep, totally agree. Yes there are times when efx work or other shots require overcrank at full res. But frankly I've probably seen enough shots from Epic of overcranked water drops, and somebody's girlfriend jumping into a backyard pool in LA to know it's mostly a toy for a lot of folks. Which is fine for them. But to tell a story, Scarlet is exceedingly sufficient for me!

 

[Nick Wernham]

It's simple really: most of the time the Scarlet is going to cover everything that I'd want to do while shooting digital. On the days that it doesn't I will rent an Epic.

 

[Christian Jadot]

I am going to be shooting mostly in 3K to begin with, it seems the most versitile for the Scarlet X. (Plus I cannot afford a bunch of media.) I will shoot 4K on rare occasions, but sometimes I will want slowmo shots, or HDRX shots, 3K is capable of that. So no real Epic Envy, because I cannot afford the media for 120 fps in 5k.

 

[A.Fetchko]

I'm going to cut slightly against the grain here....

Shooting at a slightly over cranked rate is nothing new. I frankly as a director or DP will shoot at 30 or 40FPS targeting a 24FPS playback to "take the edge off" or give something an ethereal float.

And I assure you, Lynch, Kubrick, Lucas and Spielberg are no strangers to this.

I think you'd be surprised how much subtle over cranking was in all the films mentioned at the beginning of this thread. It, like everything else, is just another paintbrush. Blanket statements don't help anybody.

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

I hope that a future update will allow the scarlet to shot 5k at 24fps, better would be at 30

Red guys made it very clear about the data rates. Maaaybe we will get 24 fps with HDRx on 4K res, but I guess that's about it. If 5K is required for the project I suppose one should just get an Epic.

 

[sam karr]

yes i really doubt about 24fps in 5k. but maybe they'll update to 4.5k if they decide one day to give up on the red one. after all, they put "ASICs that weren't fast enough for EPIC" in the scarlet. but there is some extra room i guess. Asics should just be at the limit of what is acceptable for the epic. I would pay for such an update. scarlet with specs of red mx.

 

[Scott C]

Quick question I hadn't seen answered specifically-- for the available framerates (eg 60fps in 2K) does the setting allow for odd increments of 1 fps (i.e. 34fps, 53fps)? Or just the "common" settings?

 

[Phil Holland]

yes i really doubt about 24fps in 5k.

I could see something amazing happen where suddenly Dragon lands and offers 6k for stills and 24fps at 5k. A very worthy upgrade. Epic owners will get 24 fps through over cranked fps at 6k and the world keeps on spinning. I would need to know more about the guts of the cameras, but I certainly think this is plausible.

I believe the current hardware within Epic could even handle 24 fps at 8k, maybe even more. It's got a powerful monster inside lifting a lot of weight.

 

[BrandonChristensen]

My biggest worry is that Peter Jackson and James Cameron are going to make 48 standard...and our Scarlets will be useless.

Yes, I'm joking.

 

[Joel Arvidsson]

I would liked to have shot some projects on 50fps and I would be fine with 50fps slowmo. But I still have a chance at lower res. It is what it is and It will be great!

 

[Alexander Ibrahim]

And i don't think i have to go 48fps just because Cameron and Jackson do ;-)

Well, are you making movies for yourself, or for paying clients?

Paying clients will start demanding whatever is "hot," just like they always do.

If Jackson and/or Cameron score hits with their high frame rate films - especially if they take home awards - you can bet your ass everyone walking in the door will be asking, "Can we shoot at 5K 60fps like Avatar 2?"

Now in fairness, if you say "The camera I want to shoot is a Red Scarlet, and it shoots 24fps. I can rent it to you for $x/day. If you want to shoot in 5k 60fps I have to rent or buy a Red Epic, and that will rent for $4x/day. How exactly do you think 60fps will help your story?" That is likely to make a lot of clients change course.

If you make your films purely for self satisfaction ... then this is not a concern at all.

Once upon a time Red had a proposed "Epic S" camera, which was targeted at $15000 or so. That was supposed to 5K 60fps, and I definitely would have bought that. That camera may be gone now from the roadmap.

With what's announced though, I'm hoarding my pennies for a Red Epic - probably an X.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I see that a few people are wondering whether or not Scarlet-X has the right balance of features for their needs. Well, I look at it this way: a lot of our favourite movies were shot at 24fps so if they were made today, they could be shot on Scarlets.

Many (if not most) of the classic movies you named were shot with different cameras. It's not unusual for old-school movies to use a Panavision or Mitchell camera, then grab a high-speed Arriflex -- as one example -- for a handful of slow-mo shots.

I see no reason why you couldn't shoot 90% of a movie on a 24fps-only camera, then rent a slow-mo capable camera for a couple of days and do all the high speed stuff that way. Nobody's forcing you to just use one camera. Heck, I just finished a TV project that used three different cameras (Red, F3, and Canon 5D), and I had to match them all in post. Nobody will ever know different cameras were used by the time it hits air.

The lighting choices and lenses you use will have a far greater effect on your final pictures than whether you use a Scarlet, an Epic, a Red One, or anything else -- in my opinion.