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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Made in the USA...

Eric J said:
I think you have a point that there is a market for some things to be made overseas, but people are spoiled and want things for low cost. It has gotten to the point that manufacturers are shipping from overseas for everything now. We in the US wonder where all the jobs went, and we all complain about why things cost so much. A dear friend from England laughs at me when I mention things like this. Things are so much more overseas, but Americans are spoiled, however we do pay more for the "perception" if it has a name behind it. There is a huge perception (and truth to some extent) that USA means quality as well, and we take pride in owning parts from the US, and we should. I don't want to make this a political debate, but sometimes for large companies like RED, or others, producing in the US could be actually lower cost and offer better quality. I'll explain. For anyone in the position of RED or any big name, if producing parts on a machining level, etc, a high end CNC mill with precision tolerances can be under $100,000 . If buying a Haas mill (made in the US) the parts could be made in the US on US machines. It doesn't get much better than this. The company can rent a facility, hire a few machinists, engineers, and do it all in house if they wanted. This is the epitome of Quality Control. Overall in the long run this would be a more valuable process for RED or any plant creating products. I'm sure it has some drawbacks, but has many advantages and when producing your own machine parts, outside of electronics (millions or billions of setup is necessary to make sensors, etc) there will always be less backorder, and parts could become available faster, cheaper, etc.

It seems US companies shipping overseas want to take the quick and easy route instead of this strategy because they are worried about selling now vs overcoming the growing pains of US manufacturing. RED started a revolution in cinema, hopefully they can start the REVOLUTION in US MANUFACTURING AGAIN. I would buy RED for this reason alone. That doesn't mean I don't buy from overseas manufacturers. I buy what I like, regardless of where it was made (unless I found out it was north korea lol) but there is a definitive pride in Buying US, especially if the company manufacturing is in the US.
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I'm with you, Eric. Great post. I also buy from everywhere. I look always for quality and value. I own many Japanese cameras and love them- they never failed me. I own an American GLidecam, an american Kessler Pocket Dolly (Phillip bloom) also an excellent product, as well as a micro dolly (my most used support gear with my tripod)... On the other hand, I also own Macs, which are manufactured in CHina and designed in the USA, as well as a Lenovo Laptop, designed in China (If I'm not mistaken). My car is from Japan and I love it- and sincerely would never buy (until proven wrong) an American car because they look terrible, are environmentally irresponsible and are not great performers (excluding the Corvette and the Viper). I buy local food and local products as much as possible, as long as they obey the criteria I described above. If there was an innovative team and project over here doing something similar and with such passion i would support them, no doubt. There's nothing wrong to support your local products. having pride in your own local manufacture and production is commendable. But it should not be "The" sole reason for a buying decision. Innovation, quality assurance, service, attention to the costumer, etc. should be equally important and, above all, we are all global citizens, and country of origin should not be the key of the relationship between costumer and product.

This is the advantage of our Global World. Even if a product is manufactured on the other side of the world, nothing prevents me to order online and have it in 3 days by my doorstep.
 
The build quality of Epic M is amazing, very impressed.
 
Sergio Perez said:
I'm with you, Eric. Great post. I also buy from everywhere. I look always for quality and value. I own many Japanese cameras and love them- they never failed me. I own an American GLidecam, an american Kellser Pocket Dolly (Phillip bloom) also an excellent product, as well as a microdolly. I also own Macs, which are manufactured in CHina and designed in the USA, as well as a Lenovo Laptop, designed in China (If I'm not mistaken). My car is from Japan and I love it- and sincerely would never buy (until proven wrong) an American car because they look terrible, are environmentally irresponsible and are not great performers (excluding the Corvette and the Viper). I buy local food and local products as much as possible, as long as they obey the criteria I described above.

This is the advantage of our Global World. Even if a product is manufactured on the other side of the world, nothing prevents me to order online and have it in 3 days by my doorstep.
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Couldn't agree more Sergio. I don't hesitate to buy overseas, but would love to see RED completely making all there products in the US, mostly for quality control issues, and to help with whatever US advantages it has. A Global Economy is key, it is what drives price down overall; we as Americans just need to look at the products we buy, regardless of where they are from and know the quality and manufacturing process behind them for high end products. I think it is common knowledge amongst US buyers that US manufacturers mostly have their parts made overseas because of cost savings, and larger profits. I think the average purchaser, especially on quality or higher end products would pay more if manufactured in the USA was part of it. It shouldn't be the only reason a buyer purchases US products, but it has advantages on both sides.


Eric J
Creative Director/Artist Group Agency
Designer/CEO/cineZEN USA
 
This is one thing that has always impressed me about Red: the best cinema cameras in the world are being designed and manufactured right here in America. Thank you Jim and the Red Team for showing us that we can still do it here.
 
I'm very impressed by those stats, Jim. I love the idea of manufacturing in-house and it sounds like it's working out very well.

Denizhan Nacar said:
And it all started in a small garage with 300 bucks ....ONLY IN AMERICA....
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Do you seriously believe that that sort of thing doesn't happen elsewhere? I don't mind a bit of pride of one's home country, but blind nationalism annoys me...
 
Jannard said:
Many companies say that their products "are designed in the USA." That is a hand job. Designing in the USA does create a few jobs, but that isn't enough. Most then send the designs to China for manufacturing.

Truly "Made in the USA" is what matters. That used to mean something. It does again today. At least we think so...

We are anxious and excited to create jobs here. We think we can compete by designing, engineering and manufacturing in the USA. That means performance and pricing.

90+% of EPIC is USA made. Even the boards are made in Silicone Valley. All assembly is being done at our factory in Irvine, CA. While we have nothing against China, almost nothing about EPIC has any parts made there. Only a handful of parts are made in Japan.

The future of our economy depends on Americans being productive. That means actually making things...

The very 1st EPIC-M (which went to Spiderman) took 8 people 12 hours to assemble. The 1st run had a 10% rate for "no re-work". That means that 90% had some sort of necessary re-work before it could be sent out.

Today... an EPIC-X gets assembled by an 8 person team in 13 minutes with a 96% "no re-work" percentage. And we are just getting started.

These are exciting times in a number of ways. The single best camera in the cinema industry was conceived of, designed, engineered, developed, and manufactured in the USA. Not Japan. Not Germany. Who would have thunk it?

Jim
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I truly applaud the RED team and Jim personally on his business ethics and business sense. I am just a small fry director and DP - but I have employees, a business, and make a living off of the fusion of RED's products and our collective talents and skills. His business has enabled us to grow, become useful to larger scale companies, and take our cottage industry into areas we simply couldn't compete in a few years ago. Our work takes us around the world for feature films and commercial clients - something that I had hoped for for 8 years before getting there with this product.

I can't thank you enough Jim for making this magnificent camera - and I look forward to my EpicX - with AMERICAN PRIDE. As a US veteran, I get a weird sort of enthusiasm when I think of American businesses that over compete by chucking an industry rule book out the window. It is a fact of Jim's brilliance as a businessman that he has the temerity and wisdom to push to have his manufacturing reinforce his own micro economy. By doing so, he shows that you CAN make the best damn product in the world right here in America. By showing the way for other companies looking to manufacture "highest tech" products at a commodity rate - premium products that require sophistication in design, speed and elegance in construction - he shows that it can be done. What does that accomplish? Jim is a billionaire - and I suspect much of his value has something to do with the US dollar. If he bolsters a local economy, establishes confidence in the ability of US workers to design and manufacture top quality products, and successfully deliver these products, then the companies that may follow this example will contribute to this economy as well - reinforcing the value of his very own assets as the export and sale of ever increasing sophisticated goods starts to role out of the CA valley and end up over seas. Red alone will not make the economy better - that would be a naive notion. BUT RED and JIM's example can serve as a template for industrial competitiveness around the company - they can lead the way for industrially competitive companies to kickstart an economy.

I can't help but think that if Jim had decided he wanted to build a car instead, it would be a flying beauty with a holographic entertainment system, a sleek line, and stealth capabilities. I'm sure some would complain that it flies, but those of us with a Jim Car would be flying around with smiles on our faces and getting there quicker than the folks in a BMW or Mercedes terrestrial auto.

Thank you JIM and RED's outstanding team of professionals and enthusiasts for all you do. This bud's for you.
 
Of all the amazing accomplishments of RED. The Made in the USA is by far the most amazing and inspiring. It makes me extremely proud to be a RED customer. It proves that technology can be an American product.

I hope that others will follow suit.
 
Compare and contrast Solyndra to Red. Both are leveraging the photo-electric affect to generate electrons by light interacting with (mostly) silicon. But the difference is the value added to those photons and electrons by skilled people. Creating REAL jobs making the highest value product imaginable: Image experiences that can touch the soul.

On the more mundane front, let's examine the business implications of Mr. Jannard's numbers, 8 people x 13 minutes. Let's assume this was done for measurement and impossible to maintain for 8 hours a day. Conservatively, let us assume that the integration, assembly, and test (IA&T) touch labor "theoretical first unit cost" or T1 is 2 man hours, and that the fully burdened rate for these highly skilled prototype builders is $200/hour. That is $400 for a ~$20,000 (speculation on cost, not price) device, which is only 2%. That is a remarkable 1/7 of a standard IA&T factor. Amazing, heroic. To make the math easier, let's assume they can get 1,600 hours /year out of each of these 8 people (actually doing this) which would be 12,800 hours, meaning a team like this could crank out 6,400 cameras at the current pace. Let's assume they crank out 6,400 of these over the next year, and they achieve a typical touch labor cumulative average learning rate of 85% (N^(ln(.85)/ln(2)). This would take this down to ~half a man hour per camera, which means that it might be possible for this team to assemble 25,000 cameras per year. If the $200/hour staff were moved on to higher-value added activities and replaced with $100/hour labor, they could achieve an astounding $50 of IA&T costs per camera. I am now hopeful that Mr. Jannard will indeed recover the hundreds of millions of dollars in software, firmware, and other development cost he has poured, along with his passion, into his cameras and Red motion images will be the majority we see every day.
 
Elsie N said:
Wow! this should chew through the Epic Stages quick enough... Will be interesting to see what comes next.
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Exactly and by looking at the RED Roadmap the Scarlet should be the next in the pipe!

RED Roadmap... – 09-08-2011, 09:24 AM
EPIC-M- shipping

EPIC-X- shipping

Scarlet...
 
You had to wonder what was being made in America anymore. The film "Napolean Dynamite" made fun of that notion
in a scene where the salesman peddling plastic tupperware uses the "made in america" pitch line.

Red is helping to bring back the spirit and dynamism of America which is what Obama is really hoping to bring back.
 
Why this is so important:

Why this is so important:

I'm pretty much going to reiterate what everyone else has been saying:

Good on you Jim (and co).

Seriously.

I am frustrated (as we all our) by the constant stream of news of economic gloom - mirrored by nothing but the same old same old by the private sector, ie. Cut costs no matter what, and sell the resulting foreign-made piece of junk back to the North American consumer (I'm Canadian, so I'm taking a slightly broader view here, but the essence of the argument is exactly the same). . . It doesn't take a genius to figure out that its only a matter of time before your now-working-at-wall-mart-former-middle-class manufacturing-employed consumer can only keep consuming at a sustained level for so long. I know that a revitalized manufacturing sector is not a 'cure-all' for the economy, but its a HELL of a start.

But it takes balls from the Private Sector to buck the trend and set up shop here - so again, good on you RED.

and

It takes effort (although, lets be honest, no THAT much effort) on behalf of the consumer to make consistent choices that reward such companies - so good on us for buying in!


Of all the reason's to buy into the RED system, this is way up there on the list.

THanks Jim, for taking the leadership and providing that option.
 
""""Constantine, I know were you're coming from, but I have had terrible service from Sony, for example, over here. Also distribution has nothing to do with manufacture. I think Red could very well create a good distribution channel around the world, in some key markets. Nowadays, in Europe, for example, going from country to country is just a low cost flight away...

I think Red should have a representation office, hiring local people- Directly tied and that would respond to the USA- in their main markets: They already have a Red representation in Europe (Britain), but they could have another one in France, Germany, Italy, maybe Spain and Netherlands- places that other neighbouring European countries could easily access. They could have one in Russia, Japan, India, Singapore, Hong-Kong, Mainland China, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia, Russia in the medium term. These are probably the biggest markets right now for Red Products, and neighbouring countries could service either direct to Red or through these regional "outposts". The key of these Red branches, however, would have to be to not have "exclusivity of sale" over the main branch in the USA. My terrible experience with the local Sony Professional branch, where I was ignored, badly treated as a costumer and was quoted a ridiculous amount of money (almost 30% more) over the same product from the US price (and here there's no import tax!) went, I'm sure, completely unnoticed by Sony Japan- and there was no way for me to express my frustration to the main branch. Every single Red representation should provide the same prices and services as the main branch. And every single one should be "RED" specific and not be working on distributing other stuff from other companies. Having a local distribution should not prevent direct sales and service/repairs from Red USA. This is essential to warrant that local representations stay true to Red's philosophy and that they do not become bad "flags" for the company. In fact, its better to start with few representations and make the Main Red USA handle the business if it means sub par representation and image damaging representations. In other words, I think Red should have more representation abroad, but should do this while keeping its highest standards.:""""

Just to clarify I was mainly talking about service and repairs and not sales. Sales should be in the USA , but repairs has to be in at least somewhere near you that its affordable to ship and with out import export paperwork and other issues, as well s delays.
eVERYTHING THAT GOES THROU customs means delays, and depending on the country it can also mean HUGE delays and a lot of paperwork.
and I wasnt comparing Sony with red either NOT AT ALL..
 
Chosei Funahara said:
I was born just right after independence from the Occupied Japan by the Allied Powers, let by the United State.
I grew up with all American good and Good Old American Culture in Japan in 1950's.
I've remembered old western cowboy TV shows, and family dramas, Old good American Movies and American Music.
Everything was made in USA and we had dreams…
Yes, now I live in USA soil and became an US citizen a while back and I drive US made cars and now I will going to use US made incredible Motion Picture Capture Device that call Red Digital Epic Motion Picture Camera.
I am very happy and Thanks to Jim.
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Awesome post!

Well, Jim is fortunate that he is able to virtually…no (actually) build his own ecosystem and with pride. There is a lot to be said for being self reliant.

I find this discussion interesting as my father was German (born 1930) but became a US citizen in the 50’s, I was born and raised in the UK, now work and live in the US (have dual citizenship) and my mother is originally from the US now living in the UK the past 40 years. So in these kinds of things I see all sides.

However I don’t have the scale and might to create my own ecosystem and have to rely essentially on some of the best “ingredients” that have to come from other countries. So for example for some of our applications we HAVE to buy a particular lens from (let’s say Germany/Schneider) because there is not a single equivalent that is made in the USA. Otherwise if that one lens did not exist (off the shelf) We would have to custom design the lens and have it made by an outfit that normally delivers optics for government and defense (in theUS), it would cost a ridiculous amount and might not be as good (particularly for coatings, and kill the price point of the product). So in that case we have to buy from outside the US. Again speaking of the finest ingredients, for some systems we need a particular type of angle encoder that is ONLY made by a UK company (Renishaw), there are NO equivalents to this product, similarly with particular types of bearings, the ones we need are made in Japan, and some of the others we need are only made in the USA (to the tolerances we need). Only certain types of tooling devices are made in Switzerland. And so on. So it really comes about by whatever it was that a particular company in whatever country decided to become the world leader at (has nothing to do with borders or national character (exactly). Sometimes if you need the best of the best you have to cross borders. [Even during the second world war, the allies traded for optical “instruments” through Switzerland that were designed and manufactured in Germany.].

For the things we are putting together it would be a total nightmare to outsource the things we need to have done (in terms of production and assembly), it would be nearly impossible, and the scale at which we operate right now would not make this practical (and I’m too much of a control freak and would have many sleepless nights). I think what Jim is doing for creating special things in the US is awesome of course, but I think we forget how lucky we are in the US (even now, compared to the rest of the world). I have spent some time in Vietnam, and actually I adopted almost ten years ago my daughter from there. There are a lot of things over there that are still really messed up (from the Vietnam war, agent orange is still causing many birth defects to this day). If I could ever set up in sufficient numbers to practically outsource some of what we do (in a way that gives people a fair shake, particularly in Vietnam) then I could go to my grave thinking that perhaps I had done something worthwhile (to help a truly poverty stricken and difficult situation). However, local politics and corruption etc, are difficult to work with or work around but something needs to be attempted in a humane way. [I read recently an industrial report about the number of people killing themselves that were making the i-phone overseas; the mind numbingly repetitive jobs that people were killing themselves over have been replaced by crude robots). Companies like Nike are notorious…in the way production is outsourced.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that social responsibility necessarily has to cross borders.[Even Canada…(that was a joke...)]

But I have to say that to have once again to have an American Camera, that is the best of its type in the world, in my hands… makes the hair on my arms stand up on end. Let’s hope that others in the US can also bring the home of fine cameras/imaging technologies and photonic systems back to the US also. I have to say the Germans/Swiss are bloody good at what they do.

For what we do I sincerely hope that putting made in the USA really means something too!

[BTW all of these “foreign” companies that I mention do actually provide many thousands of Jobs in the USA and are products that keep American industry and our “boys” oversees well equipped and therefore much safer.]

Cheers,

Eric
 
I bought the Red One not knowing where it was made. And I would still be buying the Epic if it were made in some other place. But because I live at certain co-ordinates on a map that are within the boundaries of a county within a state that are also within the boundaries of a country... the United States, I feel a common bond with the people encased with me in these boundaries within boundaries. Thus, I am glad that my fellow occupants are reaping the financial benefits that Made In The USA imparts to the rest of us.

Yet on this forum, I also feel a common bond with Redusers forged by all things Red... Epic M, Epic X, Scarlet, Red Ray, and any other product branded with the Red Dot. Sure, sometimes we get a little snippy with one another, but when criticized or attacked unjustly, we pretty much have each other's back. And when reading one another's posts, I personally find that it is someone from a different country than the one I'm from that says something that corresponds to my viewpoint.

What I'm saying is, while I'm glad RED does its manufacturing in California, America, I'm happier still that RED gets their ideas and feedback from Redusers, Earth.
 
Nicely done. It is awesome to know that quality products are being made here in the good old US of A. :)
 
Elsie N said:
I bought the Red One not knowing where it was made. And I would still be buying the Epic if it were made in some other place. But because I live at certain co-ordinates on a map that are within the boundaries of a county within a state that are also within the boundaries of a country... the United States, I feel a common bond with the people encased with me in these boundaries within boundaries. Thus, I am glad that my fellow occupants are reaping the financial benefits that Made In The USA imparts to the rest of us.

Yet on this forum, I also feel a common bond with Redusers forged by all things Red... Epic M, Epic X, Scarlet, Red Ray, and any other product branded with the Red Dot. Sure, sometimes we get a little snippy with one another, but when criticized or attacked unjustly, we pretty much have each other's back. And when reading one another's posts, I personally find that it is someone from a different country than the one I'm from that says something that corresponds to my viewpoint.

What I'm saying is, while I'm glad RED does its manufacturing in California, America, I'm happier still that RED gets their ideas and feedback from Redusers, Earth.
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Excellent post, Elsie. Signing off now. Cheers from Macau, China.
 
Elsie N said:
I bought the Red One not knowing where it was made.
...
...

, we pretty much have each other's back. And when reading one another's posts, I personally find that it is someone from a different country than the one I'm from that says something that corresponds to my viewpoint.

...

What I'm saying is, while I'm glad RED does its manufacturing in California, America, I'm happier still that RED gets their ideas and feedback from Redusers, Earth.
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I really like that idea/statement, RED USERs…EARTH.

No doubt in the not too distant future there will be RED users on the moon and around Mars as well!
 
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