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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

STAGE 2: KEEP your RED ONE and get EPIC-X Stage 2 package

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I just wanted to say, again, how thankful I am for RED finding a resolution to this whole debacle. It was getting really ugly in here, it could have gotten much worse. They found a solution and translated it to the community quickly.

On that note, someone in particular better step down. I'm pretty sure he'll never be able to get a RED product ever again. If I was him, it would ruin me!
 
Duuuuuuuude... just one question.
Who is that in your avatar window!!!!!!


Carlos Prio said:
Over the past several years I have trusted Red's policies & Jim's obvious madness!!! I am one of the owners who has followed the original Stage 2 instructions and has patiently waited for this date to arrive despite the extended wait, my $5k on account for a very long time and the massive quantities of Epic-Ms landing in my backyard ahead of my upgrade. All that being said, there has never been a piece of equipment (and company) that has so greatly impacted my career than the Red One and there has never been a company who has laid out such a generous path to upgrades like Red has. You are right, this fact has kept me patient, loyal and less combative than I would typically be... but I am and will remain indebted.

Save your energy & chatter on this issue and allow Red to deal with this directly & discreetly with the effected parties. I am sure they will find an amicable solution that will allow them/you to get your camera and Red to fulfill their ultimate function of "Revenue"!!! So, can we please get back to shipping Stage 2???

Wishing Jim, Jarred and the whole Red Team well!!!

Cheers,

Prio
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RED listens.

It is a joy to behold.

I'm glad to see Toia is back to macking on avatar girls instead of emoting all over the place. Order is restored.
 
Mark Toia said:
Duuuuuuuude... just one question.
Who is that in your avatar window!!!!!!
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I don't know but I wish I did!!!!!!

It's the best thing on this damned thread.

The funniest was the guy threatening to sic a lawyer on Jim...

Mike
 
Mike 'Fireman' Ross said:
I don't know but I wish I did!!!!!!

It's the best thing on this damned thread.

The funniest was the guy threatening to sic a lawyer on Jim...

Mike
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I think we can all agree that this is the most important issue at hand and must be settled!! :coolgleamA:
 
Sorry to be one of your ball breakers earlier in the thread. I am really glad this is working out.

(I agree about Carlos Prio's avatar)


Mark Toia said:
I go for a bit of dinner come back and it looks like a grenade has been chucked in here... :emote_head_explode:

I thought Jim was amazingly fair and overly generous.. (considering I'm one of the forgetful mob in question) and was ready to take my ball breaking penalty on the chin.

Someone says they are throwing a lawyer into the mix.... jeeeez... I don't know Jim personally, but that would most certainly turn my RAGING BULL switch on.

All I can say again is, Thanks Jim.
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Thank you Jim and Jarred for your kindness to all in this matter. You continue to show patience, gratitude and loyalty even in difficult situations and for that we should all just say a very big THANK YOU!
 
It was RED who decided to make this a forum thread throwing it open to a very public cleaning of dirty laundry, not the customers and participants that it might effect, so it was also RED that made the only option to come here and air responses. So why are others saying it should be left to RED to handle it discreetly? RED brought it to public notice in this very thread, it was RED who wanted it dealt with publicly and not discreetly wasn't it?

Anyway, I respect the guys who got caught up in it but took the much better route of handling it maturely and professionally by dealing with RED directly in a private email, which of course is what led RED to the decision to calm down about it, see other peoples positions, and settle it amicably. Which in all honesty, with the amount of times they have failed to deliver on time, changed specs and tried to pass it off with their whitewash statement of 'everything changes', I can't see how RED could be taken seriously in legal terms regarding EPIC or SCARLET, especially if after all this time they were ever planning on not providing these customers with a camera at the last minute, after they have had a deposit on for years. Not saying it would have been cut and dry but there would have been quite a case against them. Depending on circumstances, signed contracts/agreements aren't always as enforceable as some of you seem to think.

Shame it had to be done in public, yes Stage 2 was a generous offer, but it's been kind of tainted now hasn't it, could have been handled much more professionally, very damaging thread in my opinion, maybe another new policy for RED to add would be to deal with potential legal issues in private and not take to the forum to raise their fanboy army. Who I'm sure will apply their very solid logic to this comment.

I reckon it's time to close/delete the thread, what do you reckon RED? Or is the damage done?
 
It seems to me to have been dealt with correctly. RED never mentioned anyone's name "in public". The thread was meant, I gather, to forestall future occurrence of similar cavalier treatment of agreements that should be treated more seriously. Unless they've personally donned the scarlet letter here (hehe) the 'transgressors' remain anonymous (or at least behind a mound of pointless research through other fora).

For me, the thread was great reading (we all crave drama, as Mamet says), good advice for when I get my Epic(s) and had some great pictures (drama's one thing, but eye candy's always appreciated).

Chris
 
The Fire has been extinguished. No damage done. Red is very generous/forgiving. Let's be warned to not take advantage of the best thing to happen in indie filmmaking in this decade.
 
Yeah Christopher, agreed, it was a very interesting read :)

I didn't mean that RED outed anyone publicly, but it led to private disputes between the customer and the company being aired publicly. They could have sent private emails to relevant customers and discussed the situation, which of course is happening now, but it didn't need the potentially damaging public thread to get there surely.

I also agree with your comment that "The thread was meant, I gather, to forestall future occurrence of similar cavalier treatment of agreements that should be treated more seriously." but if you were one of the effected customers and you read the first post in this thread, wouldn't you feel the need to respond? Some of the responses have been a bit ludicrous like the threat of legal action, but given what I said in my previous statement, I can see how Jack got to that point, he's just trying to defend his position at the end of the day, he's not trying to tear down RED or anything.

I think it's good that RED have taken the stance they have in dealing directly with each case. hopefully it all gets dealt with and can be chalked up as learning experience for customers of RED and for RED themselves in how to deal with this kind of problem in future.
 
Yes, you are the stalwart of professionalism and maturity by not bringing this to the public.


Stewart Rock said:
It was RED who decided to make this a forum thread throwing it open to a very public cleaning of dirty laundry, not the customers and participants that it might effect, so it was also RED that made the only option to come here and air responses. So why are others saying it should be left to RED to handle it discreetly? RED brought it to public notice in this very thread, it was RED who wanted it dealt with publicly and not discreetly wasn't it?

Anyway, I respect the guys who got caught up in it but took the much better route of handling it maturely and professionally by dealing with RED directly in a private email, which of course is what led RED to the decision to calm down about it, see other peoples positions, and settle it amicably. Which in all honesty, with the amount of times they have failed to deliver on time, changed specs and tried to pass it off with their whitewash statement of 'everything changes', I can't see how RED could be taken seriously in legal terms regarding EPIC or SCARLET, especially if after all this time they were ever planning on not providing these customers with a camera at the last minute, after they have had a deposit on for years. Not saying it would have been cut and dry but there would have been quite a case against them. Depending on circumstances, signed contracts/agreements aren't always as enforceable as some of you seem to think.

Shame it had to be done in public, yes Stage 2 was a generous offer, but it's been kind of tainted now hasn't it, could have been handled much more professionally, very damaging thread in my opinion, maybe another new policy for RED to add would be to deal with potential legal issues in private and not take to the forum to raise their fanboy army. Who I'm sure will apply their very solid logic to this comment.

I reckon it's time to close/delete the thread, what do you reckon RED? Or is the damage done?
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How did I bring it to the public? it is in the public on a forum as a discussion thread, I commented. I didn't create the thread.

Or are you referring to my comment? In which case were else should I have stated it since this is where RED have deemed to have the discussion? Or should I just have stayed quiet? Why start a discussion thread if not to have responses? It's not my place to start another thread in response to this, I don't know what you are suggesting.

Either way it doesn't matter. I'm not trying to attack, just trying to point out that not everyone who responded publicly and in a negative way was in the wrong and could be fully justified in doing so, and used how RED has made mistakes in the past as an example.

I think I read correctly that you are getting an EPIC, that's cool John, they look great, I'd love to see some of the work you do on it. Peace :)
 
If there is a Social Network style of movie ever made about Jim and RED, this thread should figure prominently ( :

Anyway, It's good to see this has been resolved in the fashion that most of us have come to expect.
 
I hope that once Epic has arrived for all that this will be the end of pecking orders and the feeling that RED in some way still owes people for their faith in them. Though meant with the best intentions, it has created divisions.

If you bought into RED early, then you'd have been massively rewarded for your faith already just by owning it, no stage deal required. You should've made your investment back many times over, by having the best camera out there to do your job, and often times as a result of people renting your RED one... a lot of the success stories rely on people who didn't buy a R1 of their own, but who still bought into RED being the way to go and helped paid off others' investments at the same time.

Then there are the people who went out an bought a brand new R1 after the stages deadline, who valued the R1 at its full price without any kickback at Epic time... now that is commitment to Red, and I salute those people.

So you see, the RED family is larger than stages 2 and 3, so it was only human nature that people would want to get involved (and human nature that there would be people out who would capitalize). I hope that now that Epic is out, and production is going to be faster, that there will be no more pecking orders. Queues around the block, Apple-style maybe?

Kudos to RED for resolving this issue so graciously, and now back to watching the Big Fight Live (Jack vs Jim)...
 
Mark Toia said:
I go for a bit of dinner come back and it looks like a grenade has been chucked in here... :emote_head_explode:

I thought Jim was amazingly fair and overly generous.. (considering I'm one of the forgetful mob in question) and was ready to take my ball breaking penalty on the chin.

Someone says they are throwing a lawyer into the mix.... jeeeez... I don't know Jim personally, but that would most certainly turn my RAGING BULL switch on.

All I can say again is, Thanks Jim.
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Good to have you back, Mark. Forum would have missed your generous sharing of expertise.

One of the things I have appreciated about Red is the personal nature of the community. I now understand that has a down side; I get genuinely upset when there's bad juju going around. Peace, all.
 
Stewart Rock said:
I didn't mean that RED outed anyone publicly, but it led to private disputes between the customer and the company being aired publicly. They could have sent private emails to relevant customers and discussed the situation, which of course is happening now, but it didn't need the potentially damaging public thread to get there surely.
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With respect, I disagree. If they had gone the 'private email' route, then at least some of the recipients of such private emails would have been on here starting multiple threads within five minutes. As it is, they've anticipated and managed the situation in public, in one thread. FWIW, I think they made the right call, both in terms of how they handled it and what the resolution appears to be.

Mike
 
James Brundige said:
Good to have you back, Mark. Forum would have missed your generous sharing of expertise.
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I actually decided not to come back... I was guttered, until a friend of mine sent me an email telling me to get on quick and read Jarreds last post...
Jim and Jarred were very understanding and highly professional the way they handled it all.

Thanks James.
 
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