Final Cut Pro X Released

[Brian Boyer]

So what do you suggest we discuss in a thread called "Final Cut Pro X Released"? I'm curious to know.
Also, the FCPX lovers bashed the critical people way before any of us started complaining back. But seriously, look at your last post; doesn't it really say that we should stop complaining and you should have the thread for yourself to express your love for it?

I don't understand the logic. Criticism is a natural part of new release and this little screw up by Apple has generated a lot of it, not only in this thread.
Stop acting like we killed your dog.

You could complain about what it's supposed to do right now and doesn't. That's a valid argument. You could complain about how the new paradigm leaves something to be desired as far as functionality is concerned. That's a valid argument. You're reading my posts and making them mean what YOU what them to mean, and it's why I have have a hard time giving much weight to any of your other arguments. From where I'm sitting, you're not that thorough and merely skim over information. None of my posts blessed FCPX in any way, shape or form. You conflate my message of "Try to calm down. Is it really THAT bad?" with "FCPX is great!" I say there's more there already than a casual user will probably ever use and you take that to mean I think it's awesome? Christoffer...babe...I plainly stated you weren't complaining about anything NEW. That, and the hate filled posts were a bit much coming from grown folks. I never said "stop complaining" - not once. I'm going to check out of this thread again soon and you can rage on if you fancy.

For the record, I have Premiere CS5. I was going to get FCPX when it came out but I've decided to wait until they beef it up a bit. I currently have no use for EDLs or XMLs but I've decided to wait anyway. Like I told Scott, you think I'm against you because I tried to get you to consider the implications of what's inside the program today and to see that extreme anger is serving no purpose other than to keep people riled up unnecessarily. But, I'm not against you. Now, I will point out arguments that are faulty in my opinion or behavior I think is dubious but that doesn't mean I'm not on your side in general, as an Apple customer or industry professional.

 

[Tim Morten]

Rather than continue squabbling, let's take a moment to reflect on a point of unity: Red is great! Consistent ground-breaking innovation, clear commitment to create professional grade products, tons of communication, countless free updates, generous trade-in for early adopters, compatibility, modularity, accessibility, world-beating imagery... this list could go on and on. Nobody is perfect, but Red even deserves credit for acknowledging their own challenges. Let's set aside for a moment that we hold Apple in different/conflicting lights -- here's a big thank you to Red for bringing us together in the first place!

 

[Brian Boyer]

Rather than continue squabbling, let's take a moment to reflect on a point of unity: Red is great! Consistent ground-breaking innovation, clear commitment to create professional grade products, tons of communication, countless free updates, generous trade-in for early adopters, compatibility, modularity, accessibility, world-beating imagery... this list could go on and on. Nobody is perfect, but Red even deserves credit for acknowledging their own challenges. Let's set aside for a moment that we hold Apple in different/conflicting lights -- here's a big thank you to Red for bringing us together in the first place!

NEVER!!!

I'm joking, of course. I can get behind that sentiment.

 

[Jason Hilton]

You can do this.

I can't figure out how, could you elaborate? , and . do frame to frame, but tying a number gives me an error sound.

If I understand what you want to do, I think you can do this with the range selection tool; perhaps shift-Z to see the whole timeline and then R and select what you want?

Ah yes, range selection works. I still like the arrow selection tool better. It's a lot quicker.

You can scrub/skim in the clip (and/or use J-K-L), mark I/O from what you see from the skim and then drag that directly to the timeline. Not terribly different. :smile5:

And thanks for the comments.

It's different. It's two windows instead of 1. Setting an In and Out in the viewer then grabbing the contents of the viewer and dragging them to the timeline is incredibly intuitive. Add to that having insert and overwrite buttons right underneath and you have a very functional and intuitive interface. I know it's maybe not worse just different, but FCP 7 does these things better in my opinion. Who knows, maybe I'll get used to it and like it better eventually.

hi jason, audiontracks (music) dont have to be connected to videos.
just play around a little with the menu bars at the timeline.

Could you tell me how? I've read the whole manual and clicked every button and contextual menu available and cannot unlink and audio clip from a video clip.

 

[Jim Collins]

Like the story of the Scorpion and the Frog, This is Apple's Nature

Like the story of the Scorpion and the Frog, This is Apple's Nature

One of the things you always have to remember about Apple is that they are a Hardware / OS company not a Software company. The only reason they ever sell software is because they have to in order to sell hardware. Totally unlike Microsoft Apple has always been very careful about not competing against the companies that write software for the Mac. The only time they do is when there is a hole that needs to be filled to preserve the viability of the Mac OS. That is the only reason they bought Final Cut. If they hadn't there wouldn't have been any way to edit video on the Mac and the Mac OS would have been toast.

But that isn't true any more. Adobe Premiere has returned to the Mac and Apple has been leaning on them hard to upgrade it to Cocoa. Now that Adobe has brought out the newest 64 bit version of Premier it is actually in Apple's best long term interest to get people to move to Adobe so Adobe will make a lot of money and continue developing for the Mac OS. And the more Adobe profits from and focuses on the Creative Suite the less they will focus on Flash which is even better for Apple.

Of course it would have been nice for Apple to explain this two years ago and give people a chance to get ready but if they had done that it would have taken the pressure off Adobe.

So really, it doesn't bother Apple at all if you switch to Premier as long as you continue to run it on a Mac computer. That is why Thunderbolt is coming out right now.

So you might think "No way. There is no way they could planned this out in advance. It is too much of a train wreck!" Maybe. Maybe not. But Steve Jobs is the smartest most Machiavellian guy on the planet right now. (If not he is definitely in the top dozen.)

If the next thing we see is a big exodus of video experts from Apple then you really will know that Final Cut is dead.

 

[Andrew Hollister]

What are the alternatives to Smoke and Resolve in a Windows based environment?

Iridas SpeedGrade NX
http://www.iridas.com/speedgrade/nx/

 

[Brad Webb]

Isn't this basically what happened?

:smilielol5:

Pretty much, but there is still that part of you that believes Apple wouldn't diss you like that. You want to believe the pro features are coming, that in a year FCPX will blow away Avid and Adobe. There is that small twinkle of hope in the back of mind... that slowly dwindles each day.

 

[Fabricio Morato]

What are the alternatives to Smoke and Resolve in a Windows based environment?

Iridas SpeedGrade NX
http://www.iridas.com/speedgrade/nx/

And there's also Scratch, Film Master, Pablo, Lustre...

 

[Christoffer Glans]

That's all. You'll notice my first post in this thread was simply to ask why people were arguing in defense of the way Apple conducted itself. As that is what essentially I feel this all boils down to and the real reason arguments were continuing past the venting of others. I don't see a need to argue what is or isn't needed in a professional workflow, that should be obvious at this point for all.

I was simply truly disappointed in Apple whether or not I "should have seen this coming" based on their prior actions, and I wanted to see what was driving people to continue to promote their cause.

I will bow out of this discussion at this point. I think I've made my points as best I can make them and won't try to argue with any additional posts, for as you have correctly surmised, I have nothing new to say on the matter.

I do think the closing statement from the very poignant article Brandon Kraemer linked to by Ron Brinkmann sums up my thoughts unfortunately, but with his greater depth of experience forming the sentiment and second his recommendation to read it: http://digitalcomposting.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/x-vs-pro/

I'm just gonna quote this, Scott sums up my thoughts better then myself.

 

[Andrae Palmer]

Apple posts some answers to our questions regarding FCPX:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

Folks they've given up the market... multicam won't come until the next "MAJOR" release. There won't be a FCP7 import. They don't plan to support tape... "Final Cut Pro X is designed for modern file-based workflows". They say they've been working with video capture card monitors int he beta program... this beg the questions why no support for external monitoring then? I can't believe they think that AJA desktop preview is professional external monitoring. This is insane.

 

[Chris Kenny]

Apple posts some answers to our questions regarding FCPX:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

Folks they've given up the market... multicam won't come until the next "MAJOR" release. There won't be a FCP7 import. They don't plan to support tape... "Final Cut Pro X is designed for modern file-based workflows".

Apple plays a long game. They're building a product for where the market is going, and relying on third parties to fill gaps until it arrives there.

They say they've been working with video capture card monitors int he beta program... this beg the questions why no support for external monitoring then? I can't believe they think that AJA desktop preview is professional external monitoring. This is insane.

It is not clear that they think this. People seem to be interpreting this post as "Apple's talking about future plans now, so if they didn't mention something it's not coming", but my reading is that, having discovered that releasing no information wasn't a great idea, Apple has now moved on to releasing minimal information.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

It is not clear that they think this. People seem to be interpreting this post as "Apple's talking about future plans now, so if they didn't mention something it's not coming", but my reading is that, having discovered that releasing no information wasn't a great idea, Apple has now moved on to releasing minimal information.

And your interpretation is correct? Stop changing what you say. Apple made the statement you told everyone they will, but it seems they didn't answer the way you said and now you defend them?
Seriously what is your agenda here?

Apple plays a long game. They're building a product for where the market is going, and relying on third parties to fill gaps until it arrives there.

Where is the market going? I mean for professionals? You seem to know so much about Apple's thinking you might know this too?

 

[Frazier Nivens]

Definitely agree with you Andrae, I bought the software and worked with it a bit. For me it just didn't have what was needed. If you were just starting out then it might be ok, but it didn't even see my 4K HD RED footage and allow me to import them. I can do this with Premiere Pro CS5 now.

For someone editing 5DMKII footage, on a small level it would be fine, but I can't see a professional editor working with it until they sort out all the problems with it. I asked for a received a full refund on the software already.

Not ready for prime time just yet.

I just don't think that they're thinking in the right direction. The full screen preview was crap, I have a Matrox MX02LE and Matrox will support it eventually but will take a while.

Just don't understand their thinking on this APP.

Best,
Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging

Apple posts some answers to our questions regarding FCPX:
http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/faq/

Folks they've given up the market... multicam won't come until the next "MAJOR" release. There won't be a FCP7 import. They don't plan to support tape... "Final Cut Pro X is designed for modern file-based workflows". They say they've been working with video capture card monitors int he beta program... this beg the questions why no support for external monitoring then? I can't believe they think that AJA desktop preview is professional external monitoring. This is insane.

 

[András Puiz]

OK... Apple's first response is rather underwhelming. They seem to refuse to address this as a major crisis. Until this remains the full extent of their response, I won't blame any professional FCP7 users for feeling that they're being left in the cold.

I can see two directions this can go.

One, Apple leaves it at that, and faces a real exodus of demanding pros, which they won't mind. This would prove the naysayers right (and force me to admit that I was wrong all along).

Two, after some more bad (and worsening) publicity, Apple will bite the bullet, admit that it screwed up, and do everything it can to win back the pro market.

I'd now wager 30/70 in favor of the second scenario. I'm obviously less confident about it than before; though the first one really doesn't make much sense to me. Is Apple trying to create a new breed of semipro editors who would, in their view, take over the profession, or what?

So I'm still thinking that Apple means business here... Except that they might have overestimated their leverage. In a word, arrogance. It has happened before. The user interface of OS X was going to be quite a mess, with a lot of hugely radical changes that would have pretty much alienated everyone. So, early reactions forced Apple to give in, and reverse a lot of those decisions.

Same with trying to get all software developers on board with Cocoa. They showed Apple the middle finger, thus Carbon was born. Cocoa took ten more years to finally take over.

I don't think Apple will abandon all the work done on FCP (and surrender all that market to the competitors) due to hubris. If they weren't interested in pro users, they would have simply killed the app. So they simply wanted to corner the market, and screwed up. I think they will eventually wake up and smell the coffee.

By the way, the price decrease does not necessarily signal a move away from professionalism. Apple Developer Connection membership used to cost $500 to $3500, and now it's down to $99... Yet you couldn't really argue that Apple doesn't care about professional Mac developers, or that it would prefer "prosumers" to write the next Photoshop version for the Mac, right?

As for professional FCP users who need to know if they can rely on FCP in the future... There's a very small window of opportunity for Apple to convince them.

As a hobbyist, I'm taking a wait and see approach. I totally understand if professionals using FCP to earn a living can't do that for a long time.

But hey... FCP7 will run on Lion. Good to know.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

OK... Apple's first response is rather underwhelming. They seem to refuse to address this as a major crisis. Until this remains the full extent of their response, I won't blame any professional FCP7 users for feeling that they're being left in the cold.

Why do you feel the need to blame them anyway? And for what?

 

[Tim Morten]

(Paraphrasing)

Apple: Professional editors, we hereby officially shit on you.

Eternally Hopeful: Well, shit is commonly used as fertilizer. Give it some time, and something beautiful will grow!

 

[Scott Crawley]

(Paraphrasing)

Apple: Professional editors, we hereby officially shit on you.

Eternally Hopeful: Well, shit is commonly used as fertilizer. Give it some time, and something beautiful will grow!

FUD... Funny, but still FUD.

 

[Chris Kenny]

And your interpretation is correct? Stop changing what you say. Apple made the statement you told everyone they will, but it seems they didn't answer the way you said and now you defend them?

I think you'll find I didn't actually say what you're claiming I did.

 

[Brian Boyer]

Folks they've given up the market... multicam won't come until the next "MAJOR" release.

The market you say they're abandoning is who multicam is for. I don't understand your thinking on this one.

There won't be a FCP7 import. They don't plan to support tape... "Final Cut Pro X is designed for modern file-based workflows". They say they've been working with video capture card monitors int he beta program... this beg the questions why no support for external monitoring then? I can't believe they think that AJA desktop preview is professional external monitoring. This is insane.

It seems Apple is betting that (with the exception of the monitoring, which I agree needs improving upon), a lot of the things you mention will become less and less important to you in the near future. They're treating tape-based workflow like they did the floppy disk drive. I believe they think it will sting a bit at first but after a while you won't miss it as tape becomes less of a factor. If third parties supply deck control for frame accurate ingest and layoff to tape for mastering or archiving, it frees them up from having to support a diminishing workflow, in their opinion. Whether this is wise remains to be seen. If I'm correct, I can see their point and it's a very Apple thing to do. I can also see the point of someone who still relies fairly heavily on a tape-based workflow at the moment and doesn't see that changing any time soon. For them, fortunately there are several fine alternatives to FCPX and FCP7 still has that functionality.

I will say this...I believe the day that Adobe and Avid finally give up on robust support of tape IS coming, just not as soon as with Apple. REDRAW on SSDs, Sony's SxS cards, Panasonic's P2 cards, AJA's Ki Pro Mini, etc...it's only a matter of time.

 

[András Puiz]

Why do you feel the need to blame them anyway? And for what?

Right now, many people are grossly overreacting by spreading FUD and (threatening to be) jumping ship immediately, in my opinion.

If Apple's response won't get any more convincing than this, then I will find more and more justification to such reactions as time passes.

That's what I meant.