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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

EPIC-S...

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If you ask me, the "Scarlet FF35" is out of the picture. Makes sense too. Not sure if there's much of a place for a camera in between Epic-S and X. Would be too many products with few distinctions between them. I can afford $12K for and Epic-S but not $28k for an Epic-X. However, if you can afford a camera that costs $21-23K, chances are you can spare a bit more to pony up for an X.

Over time the grandiose Scarlet/Epic project came into reality and at the same time grounded itself and became stronger and more clear. It was very ambitious to begin with and amazing RED pulled off so much of it. The rest just seemed like a good idea at the time. What is ultimately happening now is better. I'd rather the focus stay on fewer cameras. I'm not even sure the Scarlet interchangeable makes much sense anymore. Epic X, Epic-S, Scarlet Fixed seems like a good line up right now. Unless they can pull off the $3k for 3K for Scarlet Interchangeable, I'm not sure it's worth it at this point. Could be wrong. Would be a nice B cam for the S.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
If you ask me, the "Scarlet FF35" is out of the picture. Makes sense too. Not sure if there's much of a place for a camera in between Epic-S and X. Would be too many products with few distinctions between them. I can afford $12K for and Epic-S but not $28k for an Epic-X. However, if you can afford a camera that costs $21-23K, chances are you can spare a bit more to pony up for an X.
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I could spare a bit more to pony up for an X, but I don't want an X. The Epic-X is a completely different camera. I want Monstro, 4:3, 6k, 16bit, +2 stops of native dynamic range and a FF35 sized sensor. Horses for Courses.

The only thing the FF35 Epic-S would be 'between' is price. Especially since the Epic-S has no Dragon upgrade path (which I assume is the Monstro gen sensor in s35mm). Of course everything is subject to change etc etc...
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I could spare a bit more to pony up for an X, but I don't want an X. The Epic-X is a completely different camera. I want Monstro, 4:3, 6k, 16bit, +2 stops of native dynamic range and a FF35 sized sensor. Horses for Courses.
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In that case what you're describing would most certainly be more than an Epix-X, not less. I would pice that in the $40-45k range.
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
In that case what you're describing would most certainly be more than an Epix-X, not less. I would pice that in the $40-45k range.
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It wasn't when it was originally conceived. The Epic-X has a lot of horsepower and that largely translates into high frame-rates and light compression.

Scarlet S35 was originally 30fps and $7k. Now it's around $12.5k by Jim's best guess and 60fps.
Scarlet FF35 was originally 30fps and $9.75k If it also gets a bump up to 60fps and all else being equal then you would expect it to be $17.5k.

... but we're drifting off topic...
 
Hey where can I sign up to be an alpha tester for an Epic S? :001_smile: Just let me know.
 
I am so glad to hear an update on the Epic-S. Thank you!!! (I thought we'd been forgotten with all the other distractions going on)

I am SO ready to buy this thing...this update helped me decide to hold on buying an F3 and wait a little longer.
If the Epic-S delivers on its specs in Fall for around $25k for a working package (at least 2 batteries, a lens mount, handle, monitor, evf, media, etc.) , I'm going to be a VERY happy camper. (Sony F3 + SLog Upgrade + Gemini 4:4:4 dual SDI recorder + Power = over $23K at least, would much rather have 5K RAW all in one little Epic-sized box for a similar price!)

And wow 60fps 5K would be AMAZING at the Epic-S price point. When I need super-slow I'll either shoot lower resolution or rent an Epic-X. (Or a Phantom wink wink). And just to remind everyone (including myself), the Sony F3 requires a DUAL LINK SDI recorder to shoot 60p at 1080. Cheapest one I know of is the Convergent Design Gemini which adds an extra $6000 + SSD MEDIA + POWER to your kit (and the size). So considering Epic-S will do it all in camera...that's a huge difference.
 
+1 for Brian. That was exactly what i was thinking and why i didnt buy an f3 :)
 
Jarek Zabczynski said:
If you ask me, the "Scarlet FF35" is out of the picture. Makes sense too. Not sure if there's much of a place for a camera in between Epic-S and X. Would be too many products with few distinctions between them. I can afford $12K for and Epic-S but not $28k for an Epic-X. However, if you can afford a camera that costs $21-23K, chances are you can spare a bit more to pony up for an X..
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It looks like the Scarlet chassis is going to be really challenged to process that many more pixels. In fact, I don't recall that the Epic chassis is bound for a FF version. It might need a whole new platform. (idle speculation - anybody know better?)

I have been buying lenses with FF in mind, but I'm changing my opinion a bit. The fantastic results from Epic M, and my own testing of a new Nikon D7000 are leading me away from FF format. I think we may for now be reaching a point of diminishing returns when it comes to resolution (and therefore data flow and storage.) I still pull out a FF body when I want REALLY wide, but it's kind of a special effect, which I might be able to accomplish with sensor appropriate lensing.

I am guessing, therefore, that Dragon will be about dynamic range and sensitivity (love the ND OLPF option), and not many more pixels, which translates directly to more power, heat to be dissipated, and data to be managed. 5 k seems to be the magic number for a deBayered 4 K finish. Do we want more, at least for now? FF 4x3 might work great for IMAX type screens.

Anyone shooting medium format digital see a difference?
 
Jannard said:
EPIC-S is dependent on a few things...

1. EPIC-X finished and shipping most of the orders.

2. The rework of the camera given less electronics and features.

3. Cost saving advantages from a mature assembly process and efficiency of production techniques.

We expect EPIC-S to be in production in Fall of this year. That presupposes no more supply chain surprises.

Jim
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Forgive the stupid question but Epic-S is basically a scarlet with interchangeable lens options. And the Scarlet will be released as a fixed lens camera.
 
Jon Chema said:
Forgive the stupid question but Epic-S is basically a scarlet with interchangeable lens options. And the Scarlet will be released as a fixed lens camera.
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Nope, it was from the scarlet line yes, but it actually shoots in 5k at 60fps (i think 60)and the scarlet fixed only shoots 3k but at 120fps :) but it will not be upgradable to the RED DRAGON sensor when it is released for epic-x and epic-m. I think I remember Jannard stating at one point it is an epic-X but with about half the bandwidth. But that statement is months old so i dont know exactly
 
Idle speculation while we wait (patiently)

Idle speculation while we wait (patiently)

Thanks for the link, Gavin; that refreshes my memory. That was the dream, but the Epic-S suggests that the Scarlet chassis will be more limited than originally planned. And what will be the pixel processing capacity of Epic? It's hard to imagine that the current Epic chassis will support a 617 sensor, probably not the 645. Clearly a FF sensor can fit in the Epic body, but the computing power to process that bandwidth seems to be the limiting factor being discovered. More pixels, more cooling needed, bigger body. Clearly FF is in the plans, but will it be the Epic body we now see, or the next bigger better brain, called ??????
 
sigh, 14 pages...

SCARLET = 2/3" 3K sensor with Graeme and Co tasty Wavelet Encryption
FIXED and INTERCHANGABLE (mini primes and more)

EPIC = S35 Sensors and Monstro and More.
S-X - M all depend on kick ass RED FEATURES:

FALL ends the day before the WInter Equinox Dec 20, 2011

My translation of JJ kindness in sharing Red's plan's (despite swearing to not telegraph again due to trolls and haters)

Jannard said:
EPIC-S is dependent on a few things...
Click to expand...

TIME

Jannard said:
1. EPIC-X finished and shipping most of the orders.
Click to expand...

X Months

Jannard said:
2. The rework of the camera given less electronics and features.
Click to expand...

X Months

Jannard said:
3. Cost saving advantages from a mature assembly process and efficiency of production techniques.
Click to expand...

X Months

Jannard said:
We expect EPIC-S to be in production in Fall of this year. That presupposes no more supply chain surprises.
Click to expand...

The latter is out of RED's hands and (imho) will continue to be a challenge for several more quarters, at least. Japan will be battling those Reactors for YEARS
Jim[/QUOTE]

The Moral = Whenever EPIC- X ships is when you can start guessing when EPIC - S will ship and there are going to be thousands of RED ONE loyalists INSANE WITH GLEE...
I wish all 8000 or whatever would all meet in one place for a big kick ass party!

How big is RED STUDIOS again? :coolgleamA:
 
I'm going build up a Canon FF lens collection for use with the EPIC-S.

At first my idea is to have the 16-35 2.8, 28-70 2.8 and the 50mm 1.4 lenses.

If in the future the industry does move forward to FF sensors I'll be ready.

But I'd rather not, since I'm not the biggest fan of razor thin DOF and I'm a huge fan of shooting with smaller, more intimate lighting.
 
If the new electronic RED lenses are in the same price bracket as the current ones, I might get a few someday.

Today I just don't have the dough for that.
 
Thomas Church said:
If the new electronic RED lenses are in the same price bracket as the current ones, I might get a few someday.

Today I just don't have the dough for that.
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You may want to take the lens conversation over to the lens forum - all this discussed at length there.
 
Personally I haven't noticed a pink tint to Canon lenses. That said, the sensor on DSLRs can be adjust to compensate for colour shifts and what not (can Epic?)... Regardless, though, doesn't RAW laughs in the face of such tints? I'm not saying Canon glass is as good as even entry-level cineglass (or RPP/RPZs); I'm just saying for $1000 (used) you can get FF coverage on a fairly solid and sharp 24-70mm f2.8 lense that weighs ~2lbs. And with the auto-focusing/racking Canon mount, it just seems that much sweeter for those trying to maximize their $$ with an Epic-S.
 
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