TOIA - RED MX Latitude test 2 - HI CONTRAST

[Dustin Cross]

I have been doing nothing but Alexa shows for almost a year now and I keep asking why not Red. All I hear is how much better Alexa footage is and how bad Red is. I get things like "we did tests and the Red isn't as good as an F900". What? These are experienced DPs and Camera crew. I really want to be involved in one of these tests so I can see how they are getting these results. Alexa footage is nice, but I can do more with Red Raw footage.


Dusty

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

REDlog is now a monitoring option on EPIC and soon on the RED ONE... or did Deanan already say this?

Jim

NICCCEEEE.. would there be a way of viewing a color space in the monitoring, but recording a flat redlog image? so that One wouldnt have to change every clip in redcine before pre grading?

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I have been doing nothing but Alexa shows for almost a year now and I keep asking why not Red. All I hear is how much better Alexa footage is and how bad Red is. I get things like "we did tests and the Red isn't as good as an F900". What? These are experienced DPs and Camera crew. I really want to be involved in one of these tests so I can see how they are getting these results. Alexa footage is nice, but I can do more with Red Raw footage.


Dusty

I dont think it really has to do with image quality, more than the personal feelings towards RED alot of people have.. I hear it all day long.

ALEXA is nice.. i really like it.. but RED is nice too.

also.. part of the problem is RED had alot of issues back in 07.. the first cameras were shakey, had bugs, the lenses had issues.. (its all been fixed now) but, it has left a bad taste in peoples mouths and i still hear about it.. example.. camera froze up the other day.. first time ive seen it in a long time.. did a reboot and had no issues.. but when the clients/producers were asking what happend the dp said.. ITS A RED..

bummer

 

[Mark Toia]

Not to be a dick, but ProRes 4444 is 12-bit, and 12-bit log has more range in the high-end than 16-bit linear (but less precision where the two overlap). 16-bit float (aka half) is also an exponential format and is pretty sweet (and is what's used in OpenEXR). IMO, exponential formats are preferable to linear formats when < 16 bits are available; they make better use of the available bits.

Also, one other quibble, only the Epic is 16-bit RAW, an MX in the Red One is still 12-bit RAW IIRC (someone please correct me here).

Still, nice work showing what kind of latitude the camera has.

You are correct.. and not a dick

 

[Sidney L. Plaut]

Fantastic! That's a great step forward IMHO. Now the video tap comparisons we're all sick of might start to mean something, people on set can actually see what the image might have in it, people might stop complaining about how the onset image doesn't look as good as the graded image (WTF?) and, best of all, with the addition of a KiPro or Ninja, we can deliver Log ProRes files to post all still cheaper and lighter than Alexa. One wall at a time...

I dont think thats a good idea - the incamera scaler/debayer (or what the correct term is) - is only meant for preview, it is by no means online quality imho.

 

[Shane Betts]

I dont think thats a good idea - the incamera scaler/debayer (or what the correct term is) - is only meant for preview, it is by no means online quality imho.

Yeah, you're probably right Maybe Graeme might have something to add.

 

[Peter Lyons Collister ASC]

I don't want this to get into an Alexa versus RED fight or discussion. I just want to thank you for taking the time to post this test in such a simple fashion. It really helps show off what can be brought back to life from the r3d. We should all simply thank you for your observations.

 

[Tim Lüdin]

Hey Mark

Great example of the power of RAW. I saved it to my i-phone so I can show it to producers to shut them up.
It would have been interesting to see what HDRX could do here. As much as I love RAW it still would be nice to have the possibility to record some redlog prores files.
That would shut up all the producers and Arri fanboys at once and it would solve the post "problems" in a second.

Tim

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Hey Mark

Great example of the power of RAW. I saved it to my i-phone so I can show it to producers to shut them up.
It would have been interesting to see what HDRX could do here. As much as I love RAW it still would be nice to have the possibility to record some redlog prores files.
That would shut up all the producers and Arri fanboys at once and it would solve the post "problems" in a second.

Tim

I have to second Tim here.

A prores module for the epic would be much more useful than H.264.
It would allow us to give the producers what they want instead of trying to convince them of what they should want.

Emmanuel

 

[Nook Kim]

Always enjoy your postings, Mark. I also like your choice of words as they are quite entertaining to read ;-)
BTW, is it true that you have different Red than ours? One of my employees told me. My response was..
"we should do another update to all our MX's!"

Cheers,

 

[Justin Kirchhoff]

This is great, Mark. I had to watch you clip 20 times to really see how you pulled detail out like you did. I'd love to see a screenshot of your grade on the footage...although your settings were probably all over the place.

 

[Paolo Tinari]

+ 1 for the Redcine screenshot, a lot to learn there. Can't believe this is not made with a window or sky replacement.

 

[Christian Munoz D]

This is great, Mark. I had to watch you clip 20 times to really see how you pulled detail out like you did. I'd love to see a screenshot of your grade on the footage...although your settings were probably all over the place.

I second that!

Mark,
Thank you again for your contributions on this forum. Hope soon we can see your tests with Epic.

 

[Mark Toia]

Hi Guys,

I did drop a very very soft vignette across the top of the shot in Final cut. You can't really see it, but its there. but thats about that. RED CINE X in good hands is very powerful. Imagine if it did have a couple of windows. WOW!

And thanks for the nice comments, I'm just trying to keep the RED movement out on the field moving in the right direction. The more people that see my tests, the more I can shut them up when they bag RED.
I too get bombarded by people saying why are you not shooting Alexia. I show them all our tests on a ipad BOOM!!!!.... discussion finished.

We tested the ARRI, we liked it alot, but RED Cameras in our eyes do out perform it. And the EPIC even more.
And I'm not saying the ARRI is no good, it's a great camera in fact and I love the PRORES files it makes and Ive used the Arri's for 20 years now, but the Alexia is like so 2 years ago... I'm sure they will catchup shortly.

Watch out for Z GERMAN's.

I'm also very keen to get my EPIC M, it's been a bloody long time coming.
I'll also submit our internal tests for you to all keep in your files for those annoying producers.

Passing through Abu Dhabi now, keen to get home back to Australia.

 

[Mark Toia]

Always enjoy your postings, Mark. I also like your choice of words as they are quite entertaining to read ;-)
BTW, is it true that you have different Red than ours? One of my employees told me. My response was..
"we should do another update to all our MX's!"

Cheers,

Nope... stock standard model, nothing special. We shoot it in default mode and don't do anything stupid. We shoot at 320 asa all the time and never ever look at the histogram... ever. It's hard to stuff up a shot in my eyes. If the image looks hot in the EVF then it is...

I Expell or meta data shot on set, and create my own looks in REDCINE X, export the files out to PRO RES, finish the grade in FCP and thats what you see on my website..

Fast... simple... easy..

The KISS method is always used. (KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID)

 

[Olivier Madar]

This is great, Mark. I had to watch you clip 20 times to really see how you pulled detail out like you did. I'd love to see a screenshot of your grade on the footage...although your settings were probably all over the place.

+1

Thank you Mark,

Very happy to read your prose here.


Olivier

 

[Philip Powell]

If you get time Mark, add me to the list of folks who would love to see a screenshot of your grade settings in RC

 

[Frank Glencairn]

For some reason I like working from the Camera RGB setting, RED GAMMA2 is great, it's just a phase im going through. I'll

Well even Picasso had a blue phase - so nothing to be worried about ;-)

Otherwise sueeeeet shot.

When I saw the first seconds I thought "oh-ohh - this is not good" and then BAMM!

Great Job Mark.

best, Frank

 

[Robin Moran]

Hey Mark,

As usual, awesome posting demonstrating the simple use of RED with stock software.

Great looking shot!

P.S. Jim, did you know you made such an awesome camera? Of course, you did

-Robin

 

[R Fogg]

I'd like to see a screen shot of the grade as well.