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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

ORIGINAL FILMS

M

Mark L. Pederson

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Okay - I like a good franchise as much as the next genre, action loving fool - but what "moves the bar" is an "original, well crafted film" - a fresh story - or a fresh telling of a universal theme/story.

This usually comes from the indie world - as it seems the Hollywood machine just can't come up with anything original these days.

From a business owners point of view - I'd love to rent EPICs and provide 3D tech, crews and support to big budget, studio sequels and remakes - but ... what gets me out of bed in the morning is working on, and or supporting - original films.

Most of the time these are low budget - and hard to grow your business on - but ... they are the future of filmmaking. The artists take the risks. The corporations look at spreadsheets.

This list pretty much shows you where "Hollywood" is at today - rather sad I think.

Please support, and make original films.

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/866031/95_movie_sequels_currently_in_the_works.html
 
A while ago I posted something similar after another announcement of a "big hollywood movie" shot on Epics, and looking at that short list then, the same thought came to me, so it's refreshing to read those words coming from someone who could just as well not give a damn about original material, and for that, a big "bravo" to you, Mark. (and this comes from someone who's vowed not to see a movie in 3D ever again, but who still greatly enjoys a good entertaining action movie, if/when done well, and, to be clear, I'm not a snobbish european anti-hollywood guy, at all).
I must say, though, that many movies in that article are not even in the development stage, but just "ideas", but I agree, the problem, if we want it to call it such, remains.

However, was it ever that different? (without going back 30+ years)
I have no problems with sequels, as long as they're done well, and to date I've only seen one re-boot I actually enjoyed (batman). Still, the Great Movie has always been a sort of needle in a huge haystack, don't you agree? Look at the very good movies released in the last 10 years, they're a miniscule percentage, and I guess the same is valid for tv series, commercials and music videos, though it's probably more evident in features. Even in the "independent" segment the situation is not that different: there are some amazing ones for sure, but they're always a small minority compared to the total number of productions.
As long as the audiences line up to see "- franchise title - #32" and the studios make a huge amount of money from products (not "movies") they can remake over and over again, I'm afraid the situation is not going to change, but it's been proven even last year that movies that are somehow original, made with big or small budgets, can be incredibly successfull as well, because audiences want to be entertained, but they also really like a good story when they see one.
 
We're constantly looking for and developing original material of our own, as well as productions for other filmmakers.

I agree that providing services to larger budget studio/sequel scenarios is a necessary track but developing quality orig content is our main focus.

Thanks for that list to remind everyone of where the industry is focused.

Jason
 
At first glance, that list is depressing. But I suppose it's a bit unfair for me to bury all of these movies before seeing them. I guess there is always hope that one of these sequels could be done very well and add to the original. I think as a moviegoing audience we have become skeptical because so many sequels have been done poorly.

One of the movies on that list which i just don't see is The Fighter 2. I know Ward went on to fight Gatti, and those were epic boxing matches but what don't we know about the characters that a 2 hour movie is going to tell us, and move us in powerful way. Maybe the relationship between Ward and Gatti? Maybe we get to see what happens to Ward after he hangs up the gloves. I don't know, with this movie the best sequel is to go watch those fights between Ward-Gatti, on Youtube. That's all you need to know.

Anyway, whether it's a movie sequel or an original indie film, it always comes down to the same set of parameters for me.
 
Amen Mark. It's amazing to have someone in your position -- who (as you said) needs to pay the bills -- yet has such a strong passion and commitment to the indies and original stories. Thanks for doing what you do.
 
I love the independent spirit as much as the next guy but let's face it, they're broke! Good ones are special to be a part of though. I don't know about you all but I can't wait for American Pie 4!
 
Depressing is right.

Maybe the big studios have realized the Indie revolution has carved out a respectable niche in original storytelling, and so they will focus in the big-buck epics and A-list names. The ones that fill theaters. This doesn't make them better or worse films, just geared for entertainment of the masses, and lots of money. There are exceptions, as always.

I see it akin to the difference of going into a corner hardware, where the folks know everything there is to know about what they sell, and then going to Home Depot, and asking a minimum-wage kid even the simplest of questions. It's always the same answer: 'Let me ask my manager', and then you never see them again. Home Depot is an interesting orgy of cheap products, but given the choice, I always go back to the corner hardware - until they get run out of town, anyways.

I kinda see this list as evidence of how closed up Hollywood is. This kind of recycled stuff usually employs inside writers, inside directors and so on, making it a fricken miracle to break in. In truth, I'm quite content working the smaller, intimate corner Indie production companies.
 
That list was... a disappointment. I can't even say how many of those films are unnecessary rehashes of aged material and already done stories. Some I look forward to. Most, I do not. Originality is hard and brand-recognition is important. I get that, I really do. Making a film with multi-million dollars in budget is a big risk to take but still, there are plenty of original ideas that are profitable... I guess I can take comfort in that history teaches us that no company, organization or empire on this earth has survived without innovation. So too will not Hollywood.

EDIT: Oh, and my point of view is definitely jaded as I mostly come from a game programmer background and has been sourly disappointed over how careful the big boys have gotten, mostly inspired by a Hollywood like production attitude (the 80's and 90's were filled with innovation of a different kind where risks were considerable - but didn't deter from creative input in the same way...)
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Okay - I like a good franchise as much as the next genre, action loving fool - but what "moves the bar" is an "original, well crafted film" - a fresh story - or a fresh telling of a universal theme/story.

This usually comes from the indie world - as it seems the Hollywood machine just can't come up with anything original these days.

From a business owners point of view - I'd love to rent EPICs and provide 3D tech, crews and support to big budget, studio sequels and remakes - but ... what gets me out of bed in the morning is working on, and or supporting - original films.

Most of the time these are low budget - and hard to grow your business on - but ... they are the future of filmmaking. The artists take the risks. The corporations look at spreadsheets.

This list pretty much shows you where "Hollywood" is at today - rather sad I think.

Please support, and make original films.

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/866031/95_movie_sequels_currently_in_the_works.html
Click to expand...

This is some of the cinematic spirit of which you speak -- http://www.criterion.com/films/20820-in-vandas-room
 
The Red Revolution is to put the means of serious production into the hands of the people.

Red One started it.

Red Epic seals it.

I know it sounds odd ... but a Red Epic is "The Film Killer" its the first camera I feel can be used instead of film for any feature.

It's a very expensive camera, compared to a DSLR, but the current Epic M camera package costs less than the film budgets of most major features- and includes all the media you need. (4 128GB cards- delicious)

Anyway, that's what we need to make the films we want- the means of production. There is a documentary about the "San Francisco film makers" - basically the guys who founded Zoetrope. They have a little bit where one of them is talking about this van they had stuffed to the gills with grip electric and camera. That van contained all the means of production.

That van meant freedom to them as film makers.

Right now I've priced my "van" at around $350,000 USD. Its a 3 ton truck. It includes a couple of Epics (one Epic M and an Epic S or X) A cheap lens set, like the Red Prime set and their zooms. An expensive lens set. Maybe the Leicas.. Then there is a Panther Dolly. The rest is efficient grip and electric. A couple of punchy HMI, a dozen or so of the Arri L7C LED fresnels, some Parabeams, some DivaLites, some Tegra 4, and a lot of bits and bobs for vista singles. Probably a set of dedolights, a couple of Leko's ...

The details are NOT important. The point is that that figure is the price of the modern "van of film freedom" and its not out of range.

In most of the US this "Van of film freedom" costs less than a house, and certainly less than many businesses get for their normal operations - a restaurant or a small manufacturing plant for example.

This is completely do-able people. You don't have to be a studio to outright own the means of production, and to become the master of your own film making destiny.

The support of people like Mark is invaluable. They aren't charities, but they can help you in a million ways. They can't hand you gear, but they can help you out- teach you how to make sure your cameras are right, and help provide the facilities for doing so.
 
Alexander Ibrahim said:
Anyway, that's what we need to make the films we want- the means of production
Click to expand...

Sorry, Alexander, but I disagree. You're 100% right when you say the tools available today to the independent productions and even to film students are the same that big studios are using, and that's mostly because of Red, there's little doubt about that. You could say the same, to a certain extent, for 16mm (or even 2-perf 35mm), but that's another story and this is really not the thread (or even the forum) to discuss that.

However, I believe it's not about the tools, as the list posted by Mark suggests: it's about STORY and ORIGINAL content. You can be a multibillionaire, own a few 65mm cameras and have unlimited budget for everything, from film stock to set design to talent to everything else, but if you don't start with a good story or from original material, there's little you can do with those tools. The same is true for the low-budget independent production.
Just to mention 2 movies released less than a year ago that I happened to like quite a bit: Black Swan and Inception, shot with two formats at the opposite sides of the spectrum, 35mm/65mm and S16mm. Were they good because of the tools they were using, or because of the originality of the stories and their (fantastic, IMHO) approach to storytelling?
 
Content wins every time.. Not film formats.
I've won shit loads of cinematography awards from all around the world using everything from 8mm,DV, 16mm, 35mm, RED etc etc.... Everything comes down to execution. nothing else.
Weather it be a remake or an original idea. EXECUTION is king.
You would not believe the shit ideas I have saved through share cinematography and editing alone. So it's not just and original idea. It's Execution.
Avatar was an average screnplay (Dances with wolves remake in space) executed amazingly. (hence the profit margins).
Some great original ideas out there poorly executed. (don't ask me to name them becuase I like to forget them)

EXECUTION wins... just remember that.

Cameras are just capture devices.

Red is made it very easy for indie films makers to flex there wings and jump into the boxing ring, but RED does not make your cinematography and story telling any better. hence why many people get knocked out.

Which is a pity because I'd like to see everyone win.
 
I don't know how it is in other places, but when I go to small movies here there may be 6 to 8 people in the theater, maybe 50 on a good day.

It seems like the theater staff out numbers the goers.

I went to a lecture by Coppola and others and he said about the same thing, there are just not people going to see small films.

You wonder if Christopher Nolan could have gotten Following (1998) into theaters today, I remember there might have been 10 people at the show I went to even then.

What a loss it would have been to the history of film-making if Nolan's later films were never made...

The haves and have nots gap will widen as the "code wars" escalate, Pixar vs. Disney vs. ILM etc. Those who have the base to build on will dominate theaters of the future. The cost of entering the code based film-making will be out of the reach of small filmmakers.

I've been trying to get the cost of making a feature under $2000, because that is about all you can make back, maybe, so at least you can break even with a few week run and moving a print around some major cities. And just hope the print does not get scratched since you cannot replace it.

Is there a license fee for making and showing a DCP in theaters for a profit (since it uses JPG2000 etc.)?
 
I agree with Dan. It's a well-known situation : everybody pretends to like indie and arty movies but in the end, when it comes to put money and help on them, there's almost anyone to do it. I know quite well the indy scene here in France but it seems to be the same in the USA. For instance, I understand Red's need to talk loud about the big names who choose Red for their products (I won't call their work films, Avatar is just an industrial product, like a Mc Donal's burger isn't cuisine). But if you look at their 'shot on Red' section on their red.com website, you won't see any inspiring indy film, even if they are plenty.

Sure, Red has done a lot for the indies by making their Red One, but the Epic is far from being affordable now. Mark (Offhollywood), could you please tell me what exactly you've done for the indy movies ? What is, according to you, the budget of an indy flick ? Here in France, it's below 100 000 euros. And with that budget, I don't even talk about distribution, which is out of question. Did you ever help a movie like this by providing your cameras and postproduction for free ? Please don't be offended, I'm just trying to understand who's really helping things being made...

Maybe all the self-called indy supporters could just take some time to watch some posts on the 'Shot on Red' section, from time to time... and post encouragements...
 
I'm disappointed. No "Monty Python and the Holy Grail, Too?"
 
Everything we've been doing up here in the True North has been with the aim to make our own films for as little available cash as possible (see below), and let the market decide if they like it (smart marketing helps sell of course).

Epic and Red with the MX have put the tools in our hands, and combined with RPP's and RC-X we can do it...we have some US productions we're prepping as we wait to see if our funding comes through on my passion project (though there are several, but we can only go ahead one at a time), and they will help us feed ourselves as we will inevitably have to defer writer, director and producer fees to make it work.

An interesting thing happened with our cultural agency Telefilm Canada this year...they sponsored a one-day seminar on Online Marketing and Distribution Strategies...in the past several years if you had a project with a budget of $1.5 Million or higher, the requirement at Telefilm was to attach a CDN distributor who provided a papered MG for less than what we could get for say two TV presales to cable...they would basically make us assign all exploitation rights for 25 years to the distrib in exchange for being able to trigger at Telefilm. Major problem, especially when Telefilm only comes in for a max of 49% of the budget (and you give away all exploitation for 35% of profits). Even with various tax credits and somewhere around 4-5% MG there was always a gap, and thus a lot of projects had problems closing their financial structures.

What Telefilm realized was there's a new way of doing things and the filmmaker needs to take more responsibility for raising the awareness of their films and helping identify specific audiences (read online and social media). They know we cannot compete with the big Hollywood blockbusters, but they have said, "show us you know what your audience is, and we'll consider funding you." This is where we are in the current govt. fiscal...

The other program Telefilm has is the Director Driven Low Budget Feature Program...for films under $1.2 Million, but their maximum contribution is $200,000. Sounds great right? Well yes and no. It still costs a lot of money to produce a feature with ACTRA and/or SAG cast. And the CDN government does not allow us to factor in our own equipment as equity -they disallow the expense, which is crazy because one would think they would encourage entrepreneurial spirit as opposed to sucking forever at the teat of government assistance.

In our case we managed to make the budget work at somewhere around 875,000. This requires two pay tv presales, and a 2nd window prebuy from another broadcaster (no small feat to accomplish this). With Provincial and Federal tax credits, we still have a gap of 15% but we can close it if Telefilm participates because of the way the other funding agencies work...But I thought for sure we could -and should- produce the film for 500,000, but it was an impossible exercise when you have to add fringes to actors and crew...everything adds up way too fast, even if your camera, sound and post equipment are zeroed in the budget.

Bottom line -there are great tools now (in large part thanks to RDC) and hopefully we will soon have RedRay Pro to encode and deliver 4K masters...but we still need solid execution and an even better script. Combined with the marketing strategy, more indie projects should break on through.
 
Thanks Mark, that mean a lot for us small independent film makers....THANK YOU
 
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