Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Japan Quake 11th March 2011

Status
Not open for further replies.
Elsie N said:
I think you are putting the "uninformed" shoe on my foot when you should look down and see that it is you who are wearing it.

TMI was a three. Chernobyl was the maximum 7. As far back as last Saturday Japan even called theirs a 4. Many have now upgraded that to a 6.

Five year cleanup period? One word... Chernobyl. And don't forget that decades after that event there are places that still do not allow the slaughter for human consumption of sheep. Three Mile Island was small. But ask Europeans about Chernobyl. They will tell you that THAT was a very big deal.
Click to expand...

Heh Elsie Chernobyl was a graphite moderated reactor that spewed tonnes of graphite into the surrounding area, hence devastation and a large cleanup. It was also a shoddily made uncontained reactor with no failsafe containment.

Being a European and having been in Belarus with the Chernobyl Childrens Project who I am a frequent staff photographer for, I am more than aware of Chernobyl. Please don't attempt to inform me of something that I am very informed about.

Japan has a BWR reactor that cannot spew tonnes of graphite into the air as it has none, the Japanese reactors and the chernobyl reactor are alike in only name, they are entirely different designs and built to entirely different standards. Worst case scenario is a un-contained meltdown that seeps into the ground water which will take 5 years to clean and contain. For that to happen a number of saftey measures that are still in place would have to fail which they show no indication of doing.

So don't lecture me on something that I am well informed on please.

Edit: TMI was a 5 by the way not 3.
 
Jay Gannon said:
anyone who is informed knows that the worst case scenario only involves a few hundred deaths and a 5 year cleanup period.
Click to expand...
Huuu!!??
I thought radioactivity had an activity of 300 years.
 
Brice Ansel said:
Huuu!!??
I thought radioactivity had an activity of 300 years.
Click to expand...

What? Radioactivity can have a half life of anything between a picosecond and a trillion trillion years. The fuel we use has long half life's but can be moved in a cleanup operation to secure storage.
 
Jay Gannon said:
Heh Elsie Chernobyl was a graphite moderated reactor that spewed tonnes of graphite into the surrounding area, hence devastation and a large cleanup. It was also a shoddily made uncontained reactor with no failsafe containment.

Being a European and having been in Belarus with the Chernobyl Childrens Project who I am a frequent staff photographer for, I am more than aware of Chernobyl. Please don't attempt to inform me of something that I am very informed about.

Japan has a BWR reactor that cannot spew tonnes of graphite into the air as it has none, the Japanese reactors and the chernobyl reactor are alike in only name, they are entirely different designs and built to entirely different standards. Worst case scenario is a un-contained meltdown that seeps into the ground water which will take 5 years to clean and contain. For that to happen a number of saftey measures that are still in place would have to fail which they show no indication of doing.

So don't lecture me on something that I am well informed on please.

Edit: TMI was a 5 by the way not 3.
Click to expand...
Impressive credentials if confirmed. Which makes it much more puzzling that you would dismiss ANY release of radioactive material and not know that our very DNA is changed forever when exposed to the stuff.

I stand by my comments that this is a very big deal and that the media is right in focusing on it.

I can only assume if you were editor of a news program your lead would be:

To make things worse, in the aftermath of the quake and tsunami it is now snowing. We urge nations all around the world to please send coats to the poor naked Japanese people. It is our goal to get these coats rounded up and delivered to Japan by early summer, at the latest.

In other news, reactor number 3 is releasing plutonium into the atmosphere and reactor number 4 continues to burn.
 
Elsie N said:
Earthquakes and Tsunamis shake and roll and then they are over. Radiation leaked into the population lasts for decades. People can return and rebuild after an earthquake and tsunami almost immediately. In a radiation zone this is probably not possible without future consquences.

What I'm saying is, there probably are no more survivors from the quake and its aftermath to be found, and all the emergency agencies are in full operation mode to care for the ones who did make it.

I think it is appropriate to turn attention to the new danger that will likely continue to cause casualties for years to come. When a helicopter aborts its mission to drop water on one of the reactors because of too much radiation, there is a real and present danger.
Click to expand...

I have posted this in the RECON, but it is as much relevant here as well:

"My point is that in this age of internet we have to be very careful what we say and how we say it. The current media hijack of the situation might seam like a typical "harmless" war to get the best ratings to secure income from advertising - which is nothing new for media in general - but this could not be further from the truth. There are already some serious consequences. The panic fueled by the media frenzy has completely halted supplies of fuel to gas stations, which in return has stopped all deliveries of basic supplies of food and everything else. Where I live the is not a drop of gas at any gas station in the vicinity and when we asked how soon we can expect some, we were told that the HQ's of these gas companies are all freaking out about the radiation (which is still far from any dangerous levels everywhere with the only exception being the Fukushima plant itself) and we should not expect any gas for at least 1~2 weeks. As a consequence the grocery stores are empty of all essential items, such as rice, bred, milk, water, eggs, oil, fruits - You name it. Even things like Snickers bars are all but gone from the shelves... If we didn't have my wife's mother sending us some supplies from Kyushu, I would be freaking out.

Hang on. I am freaking out. Since there is no gas, the deliveries of shipments are all extremely delayed and/or postponed indefinitely. We were suppose to receive the supplies early on Tuesday - Wednesday has gone and nothing has been delivered...

You can not imagine the cascading effect this is having on the life here. Things are slowly rolling to hold and all this because there is no gas anywhere...

So sorry if I am little grumpy. I have a 3-months old baby and wife to take care of...

Peter"

PS: I was in my native Slovakia when Chernobyl happened and if You check the map - that is as close as it gets in comparison to the rest of the Europe. I have never heard of anyone in my country being affected by that disaster...
 
Peter Majtan said:
I have posted this in the RECON, but it is as much relevant here as well:

"My point is that in this age of internet we have to be very careful what we say and how we say it. The current media hijack of the situation might seam like a typical "harmless" war to get the best ratings to secure income from advertising - which is nothing new for media in general - but this could not be further from the truth. There are already some serious consequences. The panic fueled by the media frenzy has completely halted supplies of fuel to gas stations, which in return has stopped all deliveries of basic supplies of food and everything else. Where I live the is not a drop of gas at any gas station in the vicinity and when we asked how soon we can expect some, we were told that the HQ's of these gas companies are all freaking out about the radiation (which is still far from any dangerous levels everywhere with the only exception being the Fukushima plant itself) and we should not expect any gas for at least 1~2 weeks. As a consequence the grocery stores are empty of all essential items, such as rice, bred, milk, water, eggs, oil, fruits - You name it. Even things like Snickers bars are all but gone from the shelves... If we didn't have my wife's mother sending us some supplies from Kyushu, I would be freaking out.

Hang on. I am freaking out. Since there is no gas, the deliveries of shipments are all extremely delayed and/or postponed indefinitely. We were suppose to receive the supplies early on Tuesday - Wednesday has gone and nothing has been delivered...

You can not imagine the cascading effect this is having on the life here. Things are slowly rolling to hold and all this because there is no gas anywhere...

So sorry if I am little grumpy. I have a 3-months old baby and wife to take care of...

Peter"

PS: I was in my native Slovakia when Chernobyl happened and if You check the map - that is as close as it gets in comparison to the rest of the Europe. I have never heard of anyone in my country being affected by that disaster...
Click to expand...
On a local level, I understand the need for these things to be reported, in hopes that somehow that reporting can alleviate the situation that much faster. But it is also important to get the news out that there is dangerous radiation out there and as a father of a three months old baby who may ostensibly still be nursing from its mother, this should be of high importance as well. Not having gasoline is a bitch. Having a child with thyroid cancer some years down the road is a future bitch.

I've heard the Japanese govt. is passing out iodine (natural kind to "fill up" or block the receptors in the thyroid so the iodine released by the reactors cannot bind) to children and nursing mothers who were in the evacuation zone. If you weren't in that zone maybe you should get some iodine for your family anyway?

All I'm saying is that I think the international media is correct in shifting their focus mainly to reactor threats. I know you think there is no threat due to the experience in Slovakia, but sometimes deaths are not attributed to their actual cause. And for all I know, Slovakia may never have been downwind to Chernobyl.

I do wish you the best and the same for the entire Japanese nation. But knowing your situation does not mean that I can help alleviate it... unless good vibes help.
 
Elsie N said:
But it is also important to get the news out that there is dangerous radiation out there...
Click to expand...

The only dangerous radiation is at the plant itself. Everywhere else the radiation is less then 1/100 of what would you be exposed to during intercontinental flight. I guess we should all stop flying too...

The focus of the media should be on the ongoing aftershocks and on how to restore the basic flow of supplies so Japan can start to recover...

Elsie, with all due respect, please stop spreading the FUD fed by media...

Peter
 
Jay Gannon said:
[...] while the media is having a field day with 'the next chernobyl' and 'a future horror' anyone who is informed knows that the worst case scenario only involves a few hundred deaths and a 5 year cleanup period.
Click to expand...

Wow. What a comforting prediction. I'm feeling much better now. By the way, could you give me some scientific references to back these numbers up?

Jay Gannon said:
H[...] Chernobyl was a graphite moderated reactor that spewed tonnes of graphite into the surrounding area, hence devastation and a large cleanup.
Click to expand...

True. The Chernobyl reactor released a huge amount of radioactive ashes due to the burning graphite. A boiling water reactor is sealed much better and will not burn the same way.

So does this mean that the Fukushima accident will cause only little contamination? Not necessarily. Nobody knows what amount of fission products will be released. Nobody can predict the composition of the radionuclides in the fallout.

As you surely know the biological effects of radioactive substances are vastly enhanced by incorporation. Even small amounts of radioactive material are dangerous if your food or water are contaminated. Alpha radiation for example is too weak to even penetrate your skin. But if swallowed or inhaled, alpha emitters like Polonium-210 will destroy your tissues and cause cancer.

Some radionuclides (phosphorus-32, iodine-131, cesium-134, cesium-137, cobalt-60, zinc-65 etc.) are accumulated in aquatic and terrestrial food chains. As a biologist I am very concerned to see that the sea water used to cool Fukushima reactors and therefore getting in contact with melting fuel elements is apparently disposed back into the sea after use.
Uranium is a very reactive chemical element. Do you have any idea what is happening inside the reactors now?

I'm not going to make any predictions. Nobody should. I really hope that the reactors will cool down as fast as possible. But latest news are not good. Radiation levels outside the buildings have risen to 500-1000 Millisieverts per hour. That is comparable to the readings at Chernobyl after the explosion.

Let's hope for the best.
 
What started out as an empathetic thread... has now turned into this. Really? Come on children...

Jim
 
Peter Majtan said:
The only dangerous radiation is at the plant itself. Everywhere else the radiation is less then 1/100 of what would you be exposed to during intercontinental flight. I guess we should all stop flying too...

The focus of the media should be on the ongoing aftershocks and on how to restore the basic flow of supplies so Japan can start to recover...

Elsie, with all due respect, please stop spreading the FUD fed by media...

Peter
Click to expand...
Peter, sometimes the media gets it right. Good media does due diligence and contacts experts in the field before going to air or print with a story. They have access that common folk like you or I do not enjoy. That is why I am going along with the media.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top