Japan Quake 11th March 2011

[Peter Majtan]

While the nuclear power plant damage is serious, it is being rather sensationalized by the media, greenpeace and others who oppose nuclear power. The reality is that if there was a different type of plant providing equal capacity of energy, it would have caused more significant damage to the surrounding areas and people...

By far the most brutal force was that of the numerous tsunamis. You can compare it to being hit by several nuclear weapons, given the damage. In fact, some areas shown on the TV looks earily like Hiroshima in the aftermath of the bomb, with only some of the strongest concrete structures still standing...

This is in no way to downplay the damage already caused by the reactors and the risks they still pose. It's just sad how some use such a tragedy to push forward their agendas (I'm not talking about Sanjin here, but more specifically about Greenpeace)...

 

[Martin Weiss]

Some very sobering before and after footage: http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2011/03/12/nhk.japan.before.after.nhk

And a good, non-sensational explanation as to what is happening in the nuclear power plant: http://www.boingboing.net/2011/03/12/nuclear-energy-insid.html

 

[Jay Gannon]

That is a great bit of info Michael.. assuming it is all accurate it is disturbing how far the media is pushing it out of context.

As they say, "Don't ever let the truth get in the way of a good story. "

I'm more inclined to believe the MIT Nuclear Engineers than the people accepting large paychecks to go on CNN and who are then almost obligated to make sure CNN get their moneys worth out of them. Anyone who is going on TV to give an expert opinion knows that they have to play the media game and give it some hype.

 

[Eric.T]

The japan goverment would not evacuate the region, just to feed the mediahype, dont you think?
Im not an MIT nuclear engineer... but it seems that things are getting out of control now and are not "mediahype". The radiation levels of the fukushima plants have risen dramatically over the past couple of hours. We all have to see how this ends. Lets hope for the best

 

[Shane Betts]

From a recent news bulletin.

The radiation reading at 08.31am local time climbed to 8217 microsieverts an hour from 1941 about 40 minutes earlier, TEPCO said. The level as of 8.31pm was more than eight times the 1000 micro sievert level to which people are usually exposed in one year. There have been no further details given about current levels, however.

Despite opinions to the contrary, the levels seem to be rising, rather than dropping away. I've seen experts claiming the cooling process for a shutdown core should be complete within 24-48 hours - yet there has been a third explosion. The seeming lack of clear knowledge of what happens in these cases, against the computer modelling, is worrying. Please let this thing cool and decrease as soon as possible.

 

[Peter Moretti]

I have to agree that I was very sad to see the news about Japan, and I've been following it very closely, as I have quite a bit of family in Japan (luckily, none of my relatives were seriously injured in the quake or subsequent tsunami).

However, I must also say that the news coverage of the events has been terrible. Instead of reporting about the terrible tragedy, they cover the "nuclear catastrophe."

First off, a disclaimer: I do not represent the views of my employer. Any of the following statements are solely my own opinion,. I am not an expert on BWRs and am in no way a qualified spokesman, nor do I claim to be a spokesperson for my employer. I am withholding the name of said employer to ensure that anything I say will not be misconstrued.


Anyways, the reality is that the nuclear reactors are essentially a non issue. Anyone who wants to know a bit more about the current condition should check out this article written by the nukes at MIT: http://mitnse.com/


Current radiation levels at the plant are something like 20mrem/hr. So if you were living at the plant, it would take you 250 days of continuous exposure (assuming the levels stay the same -- they won't ) to reach the limit of 5mrem/year imposed on radiation workers in the US. Thats 24/7 for 250 days at the plant. For more info on radiation, check here: http://www.deq.idaho.gov/inl_oversight/radiation/radiation_guide.cfm

Also, radiation from Fukushima falls of exponentially as you move away from the reactor. For example, if you have a beaker of radioactive material measured as 25mrem/hr at 1m, the dose falls to ~12.5mrem/hr at two meters, and ~1.5mrem/hr at 4m. Of course, the power plant is pretty big, but if you keep the population >1km away, their radiation dose is going to be insignificant(at current levels).

In summation, I wouldn't worry about the nuclear power plants. Decay heat (the current problem) falls exponentially, and every day we are separated from the initial incident gets us closer to being over with the current situation.

I just hope the media gets away from this, and starts focusing on the real issues; like the thousands of dead or missing and thousands without food or power in Japan. That's the real story.

Well according to www.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/ you understated, by a factor of twenty, the levels around the plant. Apparently two hours of exposure to 400 millisieverts would cause infertility and skin burns.

Is this correct? IDK. I'm no radiation expert.

But I find it complete hubris that people on Reduser are authoritatively posting on thus far and potential releases of radiation from these plants. We can't even nail down simple things like camera resolution and dynamic range around here. The idea that anyone here knows what's going on there belies my sense of common sense.

That said, my thoughts and prayers go out to all of the people of Japan. Please know you are in our hearts.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Three of the seven reactors have exploded so far, but the cores have not been exposed. Even two-week exposure to the current levels on site is equal to taking an MRI exam. Further away you go, the radiation drops. However winds have changed and are now blowing more south, closer to Tokyo. 30km exclusion zone is being enforced around the plant...

 

[Chi Ying Chan]

http://www.angelfire.com/extreme4/kiddofspeed/index.html

Chan Chi Ying
DP HK

 

[Adrian Frearson]

This a terrible situation, which is far from over for those going through it. Japan is one of the most welcoming and friendly countries I've had the pleasure of visiting. Here's hoping that the people affected can get on their feet again soon.

While the Nuclear situation is horrifying, to put it into context, there was also the explosion at the oil refinery and the burst dam in Fukushima, which seem to have gone unreported over the last couple of days. The dam burst alone alone, must have had severe consequences, but it's so far hardly been mentioned in the news.

 

[Oliver Skibbe]

In summation, I wouldn't worry about the nuclear power plants.

I know, this is not the right place to discuss a statement like this. But please, let me recap:

- all 6 nuclear reacors of Fukushima plant are out of control
- 4 of them exploded because of hydrogen combustions
- a (partial) core melt is very plausible, because
- thermolysis of water only occurs at extreme temperatures
- fission products (Cs-137, Iodine 135) have been detected outside the reactor building
- there's a radioactive *dust* cloud over the pacific
- the reactors are provisionally cooled by flooding with sea water, which is a most desperate measure
- moreover there are supposed to be about 3.000 used fuel elements in ponds near the reactor vessels
- these cooling ponds are dry now and at least one has caught fire
- Fukushima reactor #3 uses MOX fuel elements (a fuel blend that contains 7% of Plutonium!)

Are you at least a little worried now or do I need to go on?

 

[Oliver Skibbe]

Please believe me, Peter, I do not want to play down the implications and ongoing threats of the earthquakes!

It is a direful situation and I can hardly imagine, how Japan is going to recover from that hit. I hope you will get all the support that is needed.

I do however comprehend why there is a strong media alertness (or hype?) regarding the crisis at the Japanese power plants, that were supposed to be the safest nuclear facilities in the world. This situation is not only a potential threat for the Japanese population, it will also most definitely have an effect on the nuclear industry worldwide.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Are you at least a little worried now or do I need to go on?

Everybody is concerned, but the radiation levels are not dangerous at the moment apart from some spikes in the readings inside the plant....

What is a little more concerning is the hundreds of thousands of people displaced, the lack of clean drinking water, fuel, housing, etc.

Not to mention hundreds of bodies washing up on the coast...

 

[Jay Gannon]

Please believe me, Peter, I do not want to play down the implications and ongoing threats of the earthquakes!

It is a direful situation and I can hardly imagine, how Japan is going to recover from that hit. I hope you will get all the support that is needed.

I do however comprehend why there is a strong media alertness (or hype?) regarding the crisis at the Japanese power plants, that were supposed to be the safest nuclear facilities in the world. This situation is not only a potential threat for the Japanese population, it will also most definitely have an effect on the nuclear industry worldwide.

Yes Im sure all of the anti-nuke campaigners are having a field day with this.
While almost ignoring everything else. Its sickening the medias reaction to what is a small part of a massive disaster.

 

[C.H.Haskell]

Thanks for update Paul...glad your well.

 

[Elsie N]

Earthquakes and Tsunamis shake and roll and then they are over. Radiation leaked into the population lasts for decades. People can return and rebuild after an earthquake and tsunami almost immediately. In a radiation zone this is probably not possible without future consquences.

What I'm saying is, there probably are no more survivors from the quake and its aftermath to be found, and all the emergency agencies are in full operation mode to care for the ones who did make it.

I think it is appropriate to turn attention to the new danger that will likely continue to cause casualties for years to come. When a helicopter aborts its mission to drop water on one of the reactors because of too much radiation, there is a real and present danger.

 

[Stephen Gentle]

Earthquakes and Tsunamis shake and roll and then they are over. Radiation leaked into the population lasts for decades. People can return and rebuild after an earthquake and tsunami almost immediately. In a radiation zone this is probably not possible without future consquences.

Still, I think that thousands of people currently stranded without access to food, water, fuel, shelter, heating and medicine as the temperatures drop (it's snowing now in some areas) is a bit more alarming than what will likley amount to something as small as a 0.005% rise in the chance of people in the area getting cancer over the next 20 years...

 

[Elsie N]

Makes you wonder if there is any connection between the earthquakes and those millions of sardines that suddenly crammed themselves into that Redondo Beach marina and suffocated themselves.

Do fish often do that sort of thing over there?

Keith, latest facts followed by theory is that the fish may have gotten caught up in a (toxic) algae bloom just outside the marina and became confused and entered the Marina and either died from lack of oxygen caused by the algae bloom or from too many fish in such a small area competing for available oxygen in the water.

Not nearly as big a mystery as the flocks of birds falling dead from the sky as happened a few months ago.

Of course, there are going to be more birds die from eating the toxic fish, so who knows... maybe there is some connection between the two.

 

[Elsie N]

Still, I think that thousands of people currently stranded without access to food, water, fuel, shelter, heating and medicine as the temperatures drop (it's snowing now in some areas) is a bit more alarming than what will likley amount to something as small as a 0.005% rise in the chance of people in the area getting cancer over the next 20 years...

No doubt that is important Stephen, but my point is that media coverage of that can only shine a light on a situation that is already known and is being acted upon. That is simply a matter of fixing the past horror.

The nuclear situation is a future horror and I think the media is doing its job in focusing on that.

But it probably boils down to how the two of us see things differently, and neither viewpoint is wrong.

 

[Jay Gannon]

No doubt that is important Stephen, but my point is that media coverage of that can only shine a light on a situation that is already known and is being acted upon. That is simply a matter of fixing the past horror.

The nuclear situation is a future horror and I think the media is doing its job in focusing on that.

But it probably boils down to how the two of us see things differently, and neither viewpoint is wrong.

No Im sorry Elsie your viewpoint is uninformed, while the media is having a field day with 'the next chernobyl' and 'a future horror' anyone who is informed knows that the worst case scenario only involves a few hundred deaths and a 5 year cleanup period. While terrible the Quake and Tsunami are magnitudes greater in both long lasting effects.

At the moment the situation is roughly similar to Three Mile Island which people seem to have forgot resulted in 0 deaths.

Your buying entirely into the media spin and the 'expert analysis' on CNN, Fox et al.

 

[Elsie N]

No Im sorry Elsie your viewpoint is uninformed, while the media is having a field day with 'the next chernobyl' and 'a future horror' anyone who is informed knows that the worst case scenario only involves a few hundred deaths and a 5 year cleanup period. While terrible the Quake and Tsunami are magnitudes greater in both long lasting effects.

At the moment the situation is roughly similar to Three Mile Island which people seem to have forgot resulted in 0 deaths.

Your buying entirely into the media spin and the 'expert analysis' on CNN, Fox et al.

I think you are putting the "uninformed" shoe on my foot when you should look down and see that it is you who are wearing it.

TMI was a three. Chernobyl was the maximum 7. As far back as last Saturday Japan even called theirs a 4. Many have now upgraded that to a 6.

Five year cleanup period? One word... Chernobyl. And don't forget that decades after that event there are places that still do not allow the slaughter for human consumption of sheep. Three Mile Island was small. But ask Europeans about Chernobyl. They will tell you that THAT was a very big deal.