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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

THE M8 (008) Discussion thread

Hey Steve,

I just watched Joseph's latest bts video which was great. I loved the Cinesaddle car mount. I was curious though if you guys did any monitoring from inside the car, I wouldn't be surprised to see Red have some wireless monitoring options in the works. But this just sprung out at me as a perfect place to be taking advantage of the redmote by using it to adjust things on the fly without having to stop and get out of the car to tweak.
 
Tyler Bourns said:
Hey Steve,

I just watched Joseph's latest bts video which was great. I loved the Cinesaddle car mount. I was curious though if you guys did any monitoring from inside the car, I wouldn't be surprised to see Red have some wireless monitoring options in the works. But this just sprung out at me as a perfect place to be taking advantage of the redmote by using it to adjust things on the fly without having to stop and get out of the car to tweak.
Click to expand...

When we shot previous Xterra top mounted Cine Saddle driving shots with Red One, I used a 10" LCD cable, and a 10" start/stop cable attached to the camera, with the cable strung down through the sunroof to where I was sitting in the passenger seat. I could see what was framed, and start/stop recording as we did the shots. I simply had the driver of my Xterra (Pam) keep a steady speed and follow my directions. The shots came out great...

Yesterday as we did the Xterra top Cine Saddle driving shots I didn't have the luxury of an LCD and start/stop switch in my lap, so I simply set up the camera carefully, strapped it down on the Cine Saddle, focused to infinity, set the Ruby 14-24 to 16mm for the field of view I was after, tilted the rig upward for the angle of view I was after, set the exposure, put a small piece of Gaffer's tape across all three gear rungs to keep them from vibrating off the setting I had, started the recording on the camera, then we all jumped in and I drove up the road at a steady speed for about 5 minutes - through a canyon with unreal towering red cliffs and trees. The footage was shot with a project frame rate of 29.97, then overcranked to 96fps. It came out great...smooth slow motion, exposed correctly, focus spot-on,, framing excellent, etc.

For shots like that you have to use pre-visualization and your imagination, set up the camera right - then just go out and get the shots. Some of them won't work - but when they do, its a real rush :)
 
I think it would be wrong to go any further without giving a shout out for Pam.

She not only is a great photographer, but she is so sweet and the best hostess any of us could ask for. She's been making great meals for the whole crew as well as making plenty of coffee for me to keep me wired and all keyed up (maybe that's not the best thing though). haha!

Thanks Pam. You're the best! :thumbup:
 
Detlev Eller said:
Ketch: What about tha Girlzzz & looks ?? @ 120 ...

With you, i know it will happen sooner than later ... hehe

... question to you is, when will WE (!!!) have the pleasure and have it on the wires?

;-) :sifone:
Click to expand...


No worry Detlev,

girls shoots coming up.. ;)

But while here with Steve we have to take advantage of his incredible knowledge and try and capture
as much of Nature and action sport as we can, believe me when I say that they are some Mind
Blowingly Fun Shoots coming, including Action Movie scenes, High End Fashion Still and Motion, some
fun with well know Models , (sorry no names for now), and off course some High Speed stuff for Slow
Motion ramping, with a group of girls trowing Liquid Color filled Balloons at each other;)

________________________
EPIC/ATOM Ready for 3D ;)
DEEP ATOM Coming Soon ;)

 
Joseph Hutson said:
I think it would be wrong to go any further without giving a shout out for Pam.
Thanks Pam. You're the best! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Absolutely!!

We have been truly so overly excited, (justly so) with our RED EPIC-M8 that
we have almost forgot to thank our Beautiful and incredibly hospitable and
gracious Host... PAMALA GIBBY!!

In deed Steve is so fortunate (and so are we for this few days) to have Pam,
She not only is a fantastic Photographer with a natural eye, but She is also a
Great Cook and we are ever grateful for it ;)


So from the earth, THANK YOU PAMALA!!

________________________
EPIC/ATOM Ready for 3D ;)
DEEP ATOM Coming Soon ;)

 
Andrew Walker said:
This is making me very excited to get my Epic-X. I don't think you guys could have bigger smiles on your faces in those pictures. Looks like you guys have some security out there with you as I see someone has what looks like to be a collapsable baton.
Click to expand...

Absolutely worth the wait and more Andrew, Epic is just truly the camera that for ever will change things to come!

Yeah we definitely always take care of SECURITY ;)

And for Michael, He does in deed carry his very on your face Baton, and I will not want to see how good He can use it either ;)

________________________
EPIC/ATOM Ready for 3D ;)
DEEP ATOM Coming Soon ;)

 
Alex Detig said:
Hi there.

So, the 14mm are fullframe.
So, for Super35 it should be 14x1.5=21mm?

hmmm...so the Mattebox could be used for maximum 16x1.5=24mm ?

Or am I wrong? ;-)

Thanks for your reply..

Cheers

Alex
Click to expand...

There is no focal length conversion. And there is no need to apply any crop-factor math unless you really want to relate your Field Of View to another format. A 14mm is a 14mm, plain and simple. Doesn't matter if it was made for one size of imager (sensor or film) or another. As long as the optics allow for coverage of the imager you're shooting. What changes is that imager size -- so on a larger imager, like 35mm full-frame, you have a wider Field Of View than on a smaller sensor; when using the same focal length. This is where crop factor comes into play, if you feel the need to use it. But most who are comfortable with a given format should know what focal lengths equate to on their equipment.

Another way to put it is... On Full Frame 35mm, the horizontal angle of view with a 14mm lens is roughly 104°. When shooting 5K on EPIC with a 14mm, the horizontal angle of view is about 89°. Doesn't matter if the lens was designed for full-frame, S35, 2/3" or what... The only thing that will vary by the lens is the amount of coverage it may have, the size of the image circle it projects.

When talking about objects in front of the lens, you care about the angle of view. Ketch said in the RED Mattebox thread that it caused vignetting around 16mm, which is actually quite good. So at 16mm on Epic's 27.65mm-wide active sensor area, that's an AOV of 81.7°. That AOV on FF35 would equate to a 20.8mm focal length. So I would say if you put this mattebox on a FF35mm camera, you would not vignette as long as your lens is about 21mm, or longer.

Of course, these numbers are purely hypothetical until we see or do more tests. I'll see how wide of an AOV the mattebox can handle when I get mine in a day or two.

Angular field of view, AOV, is typically calculated using 2 * arctan( d / 2f) where 'd' is the dimension of your sensor you're figuring the AOV for -- usually the horizontal width. And 'f' is the focal length. Or you can use "crop factor" math because it is designed to be simple so people can do it easy and it gives the same results in most cases. eg; EPIC 5K has a 1.3X horizontal crop from FF35. If you take 16mm * 1.3, you get 20.8mm, which is what we derived above.
 
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I love hearing from Gibby. There is obviously something very grounding about his approach to photography. I always feel like I am learning about the intangibles when reading his posts and it makes me wanna go out there and get lost hunting for natural beauty with a camera. I get the same thing from Tom Lowe.

I have a question for Rossi, since he is more of a narrative photographer from what I know about you guys: Does the 5k sensor area feel like a big jump up from the 4.5k area in M-X'ed Red Ones? 5k at 14mm must be WIDE yet relatively low distortion. I would love to see the spatial properties at that length for indoor long shots, and a bit longer like at 16mm.

Thanks again to all of you for posting your experiences, videos and photos. This is a fun thread.
 
Roberto Lequeux said:
I love hearing from Gibby. There is obviously something very grounding about his approach to photography. I always feel like I am learning about the intangibles when reading his posts and it makes me wanna go out there and get lost hunting for natural beauty with a camera. I get the same thing from Tom Lowe.

I have a question for Rossi, since he is more of a narrative photographer from what I know about you guys: Does the 5k sensor area feel like a big jump up from the 4.5k area in M-X'ed Red Ones? 5k at 14mm must be WIDE yet relatively low distortion. I would love to see the spatial properties at that length for indoor long shots, and a bit longer like at 16mm.

Thanks again to all of you for posting your experiences, videos and photos. This is a fun thread.
Click to expand...

Me too. I would love to hear more about Gibby's story and how he went from War veteran to the film industry, and how he first became friends with Jim. I've had the unique pleasure of speaking a lot with Ketch, but not Gibby and I'd love to know more ... such amazing characters and stories here in the Red movement :)
 
Steve Gibby said:
Hey Frank,

I've shot with cine lenses a fair amount over my career, but since my EFP style of shooting for the genres I work in requires a high degree of mobility, then weight and bulk are something I avoid as much as possible.

I bought four Red One cameras in 2007 - and only rarely used a PL mount lens with any of them. My entire lens kit for Red One consists of 16 Nikon lenses (mostly zooms), and one stock Canon FD 150-60 f5.6L with a Century PL mount conversion (mount only).

Its been way fun and like old times to be shooting cine lenses this week on M8. The lens kit we have to use is top-drawer - Master Primes, Red Pro Primes, Red Pro Zoom 17-50, and a Ruby 14-24. Ketch owns most of those lenses. None of them are mine.

I also am way impressed by the Red matte box we're testing out. Its very light, strong, and everything fits like it should. Though long ago used to use matte boxes when I shot cine style, I don't own a matte box and almost never use one with Red one. But this Red matte box is my kind of matte box - like I said its light and strong, and not to bulky. I'm way glad we bought it because others who use M8 who need a matte box will be very happy with this one.

For my personal work with Epic, just like with Red One I'll use 35mm still lenses almost exclusively, eye focusing them, and using good quality screw-on lenses. If the Canon mount would have been ready when M8 shipped , besides the PL lenses we're testing out, I would have tested my other three Canon zooms on the camera - 16-25, 24-70, and 70-200. When the Nikon mount is ready I'll look forward to buying that and using my kit of good Nikon zooms. When the Red Electronic Mount and RE zooms are ready I'll definitely buy them and use then extensively.

Ketch is an excellent 35mm still photographer who has traditionally used high-end Canon lenses on his Canon DSLR. But due to the genres he shoots, he uses a lot more primes. His approach to using Red One Epic will be mobile, but lean much more toward cine primes, cine zooms, and matte boxes. The alliance me and Ketch have formed with M8 covers a broad spectrum of shooting styles, and I think that's very cool.

That's what is really cool about Epic. Once all those mounts are available just about anyone who shoots in any style or genre will be able to easily setup the camera how they want or need for what they shoot. Anyone should be happy with this camera...:)

For my work, form follows function, and mobility is king - but also with excellent cinematic images. 35mm still zooms fill those need perfectly for my work...
Click to expand...
I roll the same way a lot Steve. And that is one of the things so enticing about Epic is that with still lenses, you have an amazingly powerful run and gun camera. I can get an R1 pretty compact, especially with SSD and LCD. But Epic is really compact with a still lens.

Looking forward to seeing the footage. I'm sure it's looking beautiful. You've got some great backdrops to shoot against.
 
Hey guys,

I like what i'm hearing so far! My interest is in the STABILITY of the epic. Have you seen any crashes or bugs in the camera. Start up problems. Heat or cold problems. error messages etc? Problems with shot footage? Download issues?

I love the red and we do 90% all red shoots here in milwaukee and soon will be getting an epic. Red has been good to me. Very good$$$$$$$

But I work in chicago as well and they shoot red(not as much as milwaukee!), but once the alexa came out all the ac's an dp's only want to shoot alexa beacause they were tired of the learning curve and instability of the red (at times). I have been told there have been no bugs or learning curve issues with all the alexas they have working there in chicago(fletcher has 6 of them). I am hoping that when Epic comes out it is very stable and red can win back some ground there and elsewhere!

push it to the limit guys!!!

thanks and go EPIC!

j
 
Remote Trigger

Remote Trigger

Steve Gibby said:
Yesterday as we did the Xterra top Cine Saddle driving shots I didn't have the luxury of an LCD and start/stop switch in my lap, so I simply set up the camera carefully, strapped it down on the Cine Saddle, focused to infinity, set the Ruby 14-24 to 16mm for the field of view I was after, tilted the rig upward for the angle of view I was after, set the exposure, put a small piece of Gaffer's tape across all three gear rungs to keep them from vibrating off the setting I had, started the recording on the camera, then we all jumped in and I drove up the road at a steady speed for about 5 minutes - through a canyon with unreal towering red cliffs and trees. The footage was shot with a project frame rate of 29.97, then overcranked to 96fps. It came out great...smooth slow motion, exposed correctly, focus spot-on,, framing excellent, etc.)
Click to expand...

Gibby/Ketch, Couldn't you have used the REDMOTE to trigger start/stop on top of the Xterra?

Congrats by the way. You guys have me super pumped to get my EPIC more now than before!

I'll be looking for you at NAB. I'll stop by and say Hello in person.
 
Jason H said:
Hey guys,

I like what i'm hearing so far! My interest is in the STABILITY of the epic. Have you seen any crashes or bugs in the camera. Start up problems. Heat or cold problems. error messages etc? Problems with shot footage? Download issues?

I love the red and we do 90% all red shoots here in milwaukee and soon will be getting an epic. Red has been good to me. Very good$$$$$$$

But I work in chicago as well and they shoot red(not as much as milwaukee!), but once the alexa came out all the ac's an dp's only want to shoot alexa beacause they were tired of the learning curve and instability of the red (at times). I have been told there have been no bugs or learning curve issues with all the alexas they have working there in chicago(fletcher has 6 of them). I am hoping that when Epic comes out it is very stable and red can win back some ground there and elsewhere!

push it to the limit guys!!!

thanks and go EPIC!

j
Click to expand...

While I believe these guys will be honest and the camera is truly performing perfectly on all tests thus far, realistically I don't think they will be posting about problems in these threads.

In all honesty, I don't think that would be fair to anyone -- especially Red, since they've admitted this is a very early build of the camera.

I guessing that any issues (if they arise) will first be reported to Red, addressed, and then later perhaps mentioned once the issue/solution is known.

Unfortunately, "problems" quickly become drama/gossip on forums ... and it's risky, before the camera is even released, to have people freaking out.

Besides, I think Red is in a totally different place and much more careful/confident about anything they release now. They wouldn't be letting Epics out into the wild or on mullti-hundred million dollar movies if it wasn't working 99.999% flawlessly :)
 
Jason H said:
Hey guys,

I like what i'm hearing so far! My interest is in the STABILITY of the epic. Have you seen any crashes or bugs in the camera. Start up problems. Heat or cold problems. error messages etc? Problems with shot footage? Download issues?

I love the red and we do 90% all red shoots here in milwaukee and soon will be getting an epic. Red has been good to me. Very good$$$$$$$

But I work in chicago as well and they shoot red(not as much as milwaukee!), but once the alexa came out all the ac's an dp's only want to shoot alexa beacause they were tired of the learning curve and instability of the red (at times). I have been told there have been no bugs or learning curve issues with all the alexas they have working there in chicago(fletcher has 6 of them). I am hoping that when Epic comes out it is very stable and red can win back some ground there and elsewhere!

push it to the limit guys!!!

thanks and go EPIC!

j
Click to expand...
From my limited experience with it, it seems very stable. There are tweaks happening to firmware. The guys working on Spiderman have pounded the camera the most, so would have the best idea of what is being fine tuned. Having it on a big production like that is certainly one of the easiest ways to find out what needs improvement. But I have to say the Epic is well built and I imagine it's getting closer and closer to being ready for mass production.

As for Alexa, I will simply say this. Very good camera. Same growing pains as R1. They are not perfect. We had one act up on us recently on a large commercial. Fortunately, it was a 2 camera shoot, so no worries. And it didn't stay down for long. It's not an indictment against Alexa, just a fact of life that cameras can and will have problems. Anyone who says differently has either had VERY good luck or is lying. Fletcher in Chicago is a very good shop. I'm sure they have the cameras working as optimally as possible and I'm not surprised to hear that the issues have been at a minimum. At this point, not sure camera stability is the difference between choosing a RED M-X/Epic or an Alexa.
 
redmote

redmote

Hey Steve,

I was wondering, when you did your car roof shots, could you have taken the Redmote off and run the camera start/stop from inside the car?

Looks like a fun time,

Dale
 
Thanks to every one, much appreciated the support.

Our Epic M8 has been working with out a single problem, temperatures today were in the 20's.

Just uploaded few new Pics of Today's shoot on RECON M8, so much FUN!!

Robert Frank said:
Bandwidth Limit Exceeded :ack2:

This doesn't surprise me at all. I'm sure the server for www.ketchrossistudios.com is getting hammered!
Click to expand...

Stivan Widick said:
"Bandwidth Limit Exceeded"

LOL! You're blowing up the internets! (:
Click to expand...


Robert, Stivan,

were did you get this message from?

By watching the Videos or Photos on ketchrossistudios.com??

Already Changed the Server, and also Signed up with Amazon S3, no idea
we would get so many visitors, but expending the Bandwidth further.

Thanks for your patience.

________________________
EPIC/ATOM Ready for 3D ;)
DEEP ATOM Coming Soon ;)

 
Hey guys,

I like what i'm hearing so far! My interest is in the STABILITY of the epic. Have you seen any crashes or bugs in the camera. Start up problems. Heat or cold problems. error messages etc? Problems with shot footage? Download issues?

I love the red and we do 90% all red shoots here in milwaukee and soon will be getting an epic. Red has been good to me. Very good$$$$$$$

But I work in chicago as well and they shoot red(not as much as milwaukee!), but once the alexa came out all the ac's an dp's only want to shoot alexa beacause they were tired of the learning curve and instability of the red (at times). I have been told there have been no bugs or learning curve issues with all the alexas they have working there in chicago(fletcher has 6 of them). I am hoping that when Epic comes out it is very stable and red can win back some ground there and elsewhere!

push it to the limit guys!!!

thanks and go EPIC!

j
__________________
http://www.rojolooks.com/
exchange looks for the red camera
http://thecoloringroom.com/
http://thecoloringroom.com/reddailies.html
LTO BACK UP CHEAP!
Click to expand...

Jason,

If you are happy with the RED ONE you will LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Epic.

This one is solid as rock and I love it.

We were shooting above 12,000 feet today in extreme cold.

100% Solid.

The Bomb EVF is a dream come true.

Collect your changes and get ready for Epic.

:)

Michael Thornton

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Steve / Ketch
These days are getting better and better.
Three questions:
1. How long is a RED Brick lasting you on EPIC and how many are you going through a day?

2. What DIT setup are you using whilst out in the field?

3. How much footage are you getting on the SSD cards?

Keep up the great work and thanks for all the interaction, BTS, etc

Steve
 
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