Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

SSD run times

Jannard said:
Let's nip this one now... no slower SSDs in the foreseeable future.

Jim
Click to expand...


Hey Jim

How about a EPIC module which was 2 x slower SSD's stripped together RAID0 to achieve the speed needed and offer larger capacities at lower cost.

256GB SSD = 40 min and 20 min of HDRx

I can see many situations where a larger capacity will be needed and that could even be 2.5" Spinning drives like the old RED Drives but in EPIC modular form.

If SSD's were cheaper and larger then this wouldn't matter but the reality is they are not and who knows when the price/capacity will move.

Cheers
Rory
 
Jannard said:
Yes... but why do you want it?

Technically it is 2.5:1 but there is absolutely no difference between that and 3:1. None. We started at 3:1 to save people from themselves...

Jim
Click to expand...

Actually, I was just asking because I was trying to explain to a
film friend why there is no need to shoot UNCOMPRESSED with the EPIC.
 
Hi Jim...
Thanks so much for posting. Lots of good information in this thread.
And thank you for NOT selling "seconds". I already have to deal with bidding jobs against "rental houses" with substandard support gear and having to explain why my quote is higher (when all my gear is top-notch Arri, O'Connor, etc.) Giving these folks lousy media on the cheap furthers the race to the bottom.
Mike Most, I agree with your earlier post about TV deliverables fully. Thanks for bringing up those valuable points.
Cheers,
Harry
 
Martin Stevens said:
Actually, I was just asking because I was trying to explain to a
film friend why there is no need to shoot UNCOMPRESSED with the EPIC.
Click to expand...

Have him do tests... he will end up shooting 5:1 or 6:1. Trust me.

There are a ton of myths floating around out there... like the RED ONE overheats. :-)

We have tested this stuff until we are sore. Uncompressed is like gold plating... gold.

Jim
 
Last edited:
Jannard said:
Have him do tests... he will end up shooting 5:1 or 6:1. Trust me.

There are a ton of myths floating around out there... like the RED ONE overheats. :-) We have tested this stuff until we are sore. Uncompressed is like gold plating... gold.

Jim
Click to expand...
I think it depends on everyone's perception of uncompressed and what that really means. I think in the RED world, you guys have nailed down what you and many you have shown believe to be the perfect combination of quality and data rate. But in other sectors of the industry, there are times when an uncompressed image may be the better option and that might be where some of the preconceived notions come from. They may be trying to apply their other experiences to RED. Hence why it's a good decision to test, as you suggested. They will probably be surprised at the results.
 
Steve Sherrick said:
I think it depends on everyone's perception of uncompressed and what that really means. I think in the RED world, you guys have nailed down what you and many you have shown believe to be the perfect combination of quality and data rate. But in other sectors of the industry, there are times when an uncompressed image may be the better option and that might be where some of the preconceived notions come from. They may be trying to apply their other experiences to RED. Hence why it's a good decision to test, as you suggested. They will probably be surprised at the results.
Click to expand...

Uncompressed may in fact be better if you are recording RGB... but with REDCODE it is a waste of time, data and money.
 
Jannard said:
Uncompressed may in fact be better if you are recording RGB... but with REDCODE it is a waste of time, data and money.
Click to expand...

Exactly, but there are still a few souls out there who will not understand that. And you know what, that's okay. Because I think the images from Epic are going to speak for themselves. Those people will catch up eventually. :-)
 
It is funny to me that the same guys that think TSN and Pirates look so good (shot at REDCODE 7.5:1) also think that shooting uncompressed in necessary.

I hope the industry will come around to reasonable thinking once they find out that Spiderman is being shot at 5:1. I don't know of one of the announced "biggies" that will shoot 3:1.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
I'm really not big on two grades of SSD but will consider it. It is a marketing nightmare.
Click to expand...

Thanks for considering.

It would be like with the Arri SR, where you have (had?) standard magazines for normal productions, and then you'd get high speed mags for, well the high speed stuff.

Should really be part of the job of a DP/operator/AC/DIT/rentalhouse to know about media and advise the client. Just as a stills photographer needs to know about the advantages of using 40x media vs. 600x media.

Maybe media could be named according to the min. compression at 5k/FF, ie 128g/3:1 for high speed and 128g/12:1 for slow speed.

Would also pave the way for future, higher speed media.

Heck, make the slow media pink as an additional turn off ;)

Having slower media at a cheaper price would allow longer run times for documentary/concert footage (or being able to shoot at 5k rather than a lower resolution). And that in turn would mean getting better images from R1 for lower budget productions.

Naturally, every owner should have at least one "high speed" 64gig for those special moments, and rental places should only have high speed.


EDIT: Sorry, wrote it before I saw that you'd already decided against it.
 
Actually the whole uncompressed vs compressed thingy should have gone away as of build 30. Many of the weirdities we saw had nothing to do with compression.

That's a somewhat hard sell for those who did their tests and made up their mind around build 12 under Tungsten, but with a new cam on the fly and all the heavy iron acceptance, I think it's about time to let the last stubborn ones alone.

Dunno if any of you remember Geoff Boyles stand from the early days. In short, it wasn't too welcoming.

These days, it's somewhat different.

I haven't had a major camera-inflicted problem for as long as I can remember, and the imagery is allways better when we go online than when we started to shoot.

Redcode compressed RAW has allways been the strongest point of the system, and these days the baseline results anyone should be capable to deliver is so good, that it shouldn't really worry anyone.
 
Just for reference, the best price we could find on Sony SxS Pro 32GB was $795 at B&H. I'd have to say we are right in line (cheaper per GB in every case) with the high volume producers. And BTW, that card would be too slow to work in an EPIC.

Jim
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Dunno if any of you remember Geoff Boyles stand from the early days. In short, it wasn't too welcoming.

These days, it's somewhat different.
Click to expand...
And I give Geoff a lot of credit for being critical at the beginning, but also giving RED its due with the Epic. He seems rather impressed with what RED has been able to achieve over these three years. A lot of heavy hitters have done a 180 recently on their opinion of RED. I think that comes with time and establishing yourself in an industry that existed for a hundred or so years before you entered it. For some, RED came in a bit strong. Others were ready for change and accepted them with arms wide open. Now the images are doing all the talking. That's a good thing.
 
Jannard said:
Just for reference, the best price we could find on Sony SxS Pro 32GB was $795 at B&H. I'd have to say we are right in line (cheaper per GB in every case) with the high volume producers. And BTW, that card would be too slow to work in an EPIC.

Jim
Click to expand...

And Panasonic P2 E series 64GB card is $895. So, I do think RED SSD media is falling in line with industry pricing, and based on the specs, maybe better cost/performance ratio.
 
Compression

Compression

Steve Sherrick said:
But in other sectors of the industry, there are times when an uncompressed image may be the better option
and that might be where some of the preconceived notions come from.
Click to expand...

If your experience has been VTRs with Constant Bit Rate DCT based compression, "uncompressed is better" can be a reasonable take away...

...however REDCODE RAW is a very different technology, as we have demonstrated in even the most critical scenes and viewing environments.
 
Codex Onboard is about $60,000 plus mags.

S.two OB-1 is in the same range.

Both recorders top out at 60P.

Both recorders are larger and heavier than the Epic.

Just saying.
 
Last edited:
Mike Most, it's always a great learning experience reading your posts. Thanks a lot for that.
And great news on recording times Jim.
This thread is awesome btw !
 
Steve Sherrick said:
And Panasonic P2 E series 64GB card is $895. So, I do think RED SSD media is falling in line with industry pricing, and based on the specs, maybe better cost/performance ratio.
Click to expand...

REDmag's are much faster than both P2 or SxS Pro for both reads and writes.
 
Deanan said:
REDmag's are much faster than both P2 or SxS Pro for both reads and writes.
Click to expand...
Which is why I don't think the pricing is out of line, and in fact could be argued that RED media is the best bang for the buck across the industry in terms of high end professional cameras.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top